[News] A lorry drivers view of driver shortage, fuel shortage and Brexit.

[Mellotron]

The very same people who say it's not ALL about Brexit do go on and on and on and on and on about Brexit though ...

Yes, some probably focus on it too heavily, but it is affecting quite a lot of things to be fair, and will continue to for a long, long time.

That was the silly thing (well, one of…) about “Get Brexit Done”.

Brexit has barely even begun.

 

[Mellotron]

Agreed.

The other point is that all of these problems are not only being exacerbated by Brexit but they are being "dealt with" by a bumbling buffoon who's done more U turns than Mr Magoo driving round Milton Keynes and may be the singularly least qualified person in the entire country to fix nuanced problems that require proper attention to detail and a firm course.

And the reason? Because he had a catch phrase. And that catch phrase was "get Brexit done". And that seems to have been more important to the great British public than having a properly functional Health Service, a decent education system, fresh food, petrol, planning laws that actually made sense and well funded local government.

Yes. This is also a hugely key factor. We are run by an absolute ****ing moron.

 

[vegster]

Now we have left the EU we are in control, why haven't these laws changed for the better? Is it because there is an ongoing commitment to adhere to them?

Could it be that the EU rules on driving hours were the maximum that HGV drivers could do safely without putting themselves and other road users at risk ? The government recently said they were allowing drivers to drive for longer hours and cut parts of the HGV driving test to make it easier to pass, is that safer for everyone ? How long do you think a lorry driver should be able to drive a day and how do you quantify those hours ?

 

[Since1982]

Well we'll see in the long run if its "not as bad" or not. I'd love Sweden to get out of it asap. Quite likely to happen as people are increasingly tired of the EU laws forcing the privatisation of everything and everyone.

You can have EU or you can have democracy and I think a lot of people are starting to prefer democracy. I think you are more pioneers than some ugly duck - I expect plenty of countries to get out in the not too distant future.

Nonsense point about democracy and it’s been over five years since the UK voted for Brexit and no sign of any other country making the same decision.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Well we'll see in the long run if its "not as bad" or not. I'd love Sweden to get out of it asap. Quite likely to happen as people are increasingly tired of the EU laws forcing the privatisation of everything and everyone.

You can have EU or you can have democracy and I think a lot of people are starting to prefer democracy. I think you are more pioneers than some ugly duck - I expect plenty of countries to get out in the not too distant future.

Democracy?

Over here we still have an unelected upper house and an unelected Head of State. We have "taken back control of our borders" and yet dinghies full of vulnerable families (or "parasites" if you're the fairy) arrive every day. We're supposedly not governed by unelected mandarins and yet committees of doctors and/or an unelected spiv called Dominic Cummings made every singe crucial policy decision between Jan 2020 and the end of Lockdown 3.

Democracy. You crack me up sometimes Swanny.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nonsense point about democracy and it’s been over five years since the UK voted for Brexit and no sign of any other country making the same decision.

In fact, elections in various countries, show anti eu parties have lost votes. Even Marie le Pen, in France, has changed her mind, and decided it’s better to reform from within the EU, than leave.

 

[sjamesb3466]

If brexit is seen as the reason for the driver shortage, why are the EU countries also seeing a huge driver shortage ? Also the US are seeing the same.
Covid is the real reason, HGV driving schools and tests just didn’t happen for a year, that’s the real reason, that and poor wages.

Tests for bus drivers were still going ahead during lockdown as they were seen as a vital resource. A competent government that was already being given dire warnings of driver shortages by the industry should have given the same priority to HGV driver tests.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Tests for bus drivers were still going ahead during lockdown as they were seen as a vital resource. A competent government that was already being given dire warnings of driver shortages by the industry should have given the same priority to HGV driver tests.

It's simply gross incompetence on top of gross incompetence continually

Out of interest I had a quick look at the number of HGV tests normally carried out.

2018-19 - 764,983
2017-18 - 730,056
2016-17 - 753,509
2015-16 - 733,312

I'm not sure that Grant Shapps much heralded 50,000 extra tests over the next year is really going to have much impact

 

[Baldseagull]

It's simply gross incompetence on top of gross incompetence continually

Out of interest I had a quick look at the number of HGV tests normally carried out.

2018-19 - 764,983
2017-18 - 730,056
2016-17 - 753,509
2015-16 - 733,312

I'm not sure that Grant Shapps much heralded 50,000 extra tests over the next year is really going to have much impact

A fair number of those will have been retakes, which, if they keep cutting safety standards to fix the shortage, they may not need. Just pass anyone who can open the door get in and start it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Nonsense point about democracy and it’s been over five years since the UK voted for Brexit and no sign of any other country making the same decision.

Sometimes that tin hat repels facts, allowing the creation of a perverse narrative. That's what happens when you chose to believe what you fancy. It is a gift, but not one I'd embrace.

 

[wehatepalace]

Tests for bus drivers were still going ahead during lockdown as they were seen as a vital resource. A competent government that was already being given dire warnings of driver shortages by the industry should have given the same priority to HGV driver tests.[/QUOTE
It’s crazy the company I work for currently have over 100 drivers nationwide waiting for a test

 

[Half Time Pies]

So let me get this right...you cant blame everything on leaving the EU, but you could blame everything on being in the EU?!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So let me get this right...you cant blame everything on leaving the EU, but you could blame everything on being in the EU?!

I’ve never heard anybody make that claim. Why do you ask ?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well we'll see in the long run if its "not as bad" or not. I'd love Sweden to get out of it asap. Quite likely to happen as people are increasingly tired of the EU laws forcing the privatisation of everything and everyone.

You can have EU or you can have democracy and I think a lot of people are starting to prefer democracy. I think you are more pioneers than some ugly duck - I expect plenty of countries to get out in the not too distant future.

Germany's electing a new Chancellor today so you will find out who will be having a huge influence on your laws and politics soon. Interesting and surprising to see the official opposition party in 2017 (AfD) now running on a DEXIT ticket, I never thought I would see that in the beating heart of the EU. Also amusing seeing the EU"s chief Brexit negotiator now running in the French Presidential election on a eurosceptic 'take back control' ticket ...



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Swansman]

Nonsense point about democracy and it’s been over five years since the UK voted for Brexit and no sign of any other country making the same decision.

In fact, elections in various countries, show anti eu parties have lost votes. Even Marie le Pen, in France, has changed her mind, and decided it’s better to reform from within the EU, than leave.

Sometimes that tin hat repels facts, allowing the creation of a perverse narrative. That's what happens when you chose to believe what you fancy. It is a gift, but not one I'd embrace.

Why would it be nonsense?

Of course it is highly anti-democratic. If you are a nation making your own laws, each vote means more. If Sweden were not part of the EU, 10 million people - all of who had been to the country - would elect whatever idiot we want to run the country as they want. Same with the UK (but more people obviously).

Instead, as part of this ****ing union, 440 million people and the vast majority of them who really couldnt give a **** how eg Sweden is run are deciding on who will govern our country. Over 90 percent of the laws and policy changes in Sweden are decided in the EU by politicians elected by people who have never been here and dont give a **** about anything but their national issues. If 10 million people with some insight decide how Sweden is ruled, each vote matters more than if 440 million where 98% have no insight people do it. Its a very flawed system.

Yes, your Boris Johnson might be a muppet but you kind of sort of elected him. Anyone we elect is also a muppet, but he or she would still be the muppet we kind of sort of elected. Our current person in power? Ursula von der Leyen and before her some drunk bloke from a tax haven. How many Swedes voted for them to be our presidents? Well, we he have 20 people in the European Parliament and about half of them voted for hey. So 20 Swedes had a vote in who would be the president of the organisation ("made up" by 440 million, most with zero insight) making 90% of the laws and policy changes in Sweden. How is that democratic?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why would it be nonsense?

Of course it is highly anti-democratic. If you are a nation making your own laws, each vote means more. If Sweden were not part of the EU, 10 million people - all of who had been to the country - would elect whatever idiot we want to run the country as they want. Same with the UK (but more people obviously).

Instead, as part of this ****ing union, 440 million people and the vast majority of them who really couldnt give a **** how eg Sweden is run are deciding on who will govern our country. Over 90 percent of the laws and policy changes in Sweden are decided in the EU by politicians elected by people who have never been here and dont give a **** about anything but their national issues. If 10 million people with some insight decide how Sweden is ruled, each vote matters more than if 440 million where 98% have no insight people do it. Its a very flawed system.

Yes, your Boris Johnson might be a muppet but you kind of sort of elected him. Anyone we elect is also a muppet, but he or she would still be the muppet we kind of sort of elected. Our current person in power? Ursula von der Leyen and before her some drunk bloke from a tax haven. How many Swedes voted for them to be our presidents? Well, we he have 20 people in the European Parliament and about half of them voted for hey. So 20 Swedes had a vote in who would be the president of the organisation making 90% of the laws and policy changes in Sweden. How is that democratic?

Wow. That was well-argued.



We have had 5 years to prepare for 'now', and we have not repealed any of the laws that govern lorry drivers, and insted have temporarily dropped our new powers to prevent free movemnt of people (FFS) to allow some Eastern European to keep the country moving again - and then we are going to boot them all out on December 31. Grant Shatts (in his hat and punches it).

I can see the queue of Romanians lining up to save our nation from here . . . . .

 

[Swansman]

Wow. That was well-argued.



We have had 5 years to prepare for 'now', and we have not repealed any of the laws that govern lorry drivers, and insted have temporarily dropped our new powers to prevent free movemnt of people (FFS) to allow some Eastern European to keep the country moving again - and then we are going to boot them all out on December 31. Grant Shatts (in his hat and punches it).

I can see the queue of Romanians lining up to save our nation from here . . . . .

You have no arguments against what I just wrote, so I guess it was pretty well-argued yes.

My problem with the EU is that its non-democratic. My vote matters even less than it would if national elections actually mattered (but they dont since the laws are made in EU). You have no arguments against this, obviously.

Instead you are arguing how good & important EU is because it would have allowed you to have cheap work force from Eastern Europe. Well-argued.

Maybe its a different case for you as you were always closer to EU policies. You elected Thatcher who abolished the welfare state. In Sweden, the EU abolished our once very successful welfare state. "You need to have New Public Management, because the EU says so. You need to go through privatisation and sell your state assets to American and Chinese predatory capitalists because the EU says markets must be free". Its only resulted in shit, chaos and increasing gaps between classes and most of us sure didnt want that, but we could do **** all about it since we made the poor decision to move from democractic rule to EU rule.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You have no arguments against what I just wrote, so I guess it was pretty well-argued yes.

My problem with the EU is that its non-democratic. My vote matters even less than it would if national elections actually mattered (but they dont since the laws are made in EU). You have no arguments against this, obviously.

Instead you are arguing how good & important EU is because it would have allowed you to have cheap work force from Eastern Europe. Well-argued.

Maybe its a different case for you as you were always closer to EU policies. You elected Thatcher who abolished the welfare state. In Sweden, the EU abolished our once very successful welfare state. "You need to have New Public Management, because the EU says so. You need to go through privatisation and sell your state assets to American and Chinese predatory capitalists because the EU says markets must be free". Its only resulted in shit, chaos and increasing gaps between classes and most of us sure didnt want that, but we could do **** all about it since we made the poor decision to move from democractic rule to EU rule.

 

[jessiejames]

Could it be that the EU rules on driving hours were the maximum that HGV drivers could do safely without putting themselves and other road users at risk ? The government recently said they were allowing drivers to drive for longer hours and cut parts of the HGV driving test to make it easier to pass, is that safer for everyone ? How long do you think a lorry driver should be able to drive a day and how do you quantify those hours ?

EU driving regulations, total 9 hours a day, but can be increased to 10 hours twice a week, maximum working hours is 15 hours that includes driving and other work, but does not include period of availability. Daily rest just be 10 hours reduced to 9 twice a week, weekly rest must be a minimum of 45 hours. Driving time is every second your vehicle is moving, it doesn't include when you are stationary, ie at lights. Loading/unloading as this is working time unless u are POA.
,

WTD hours these hours run the at the same time. Up to 6 hours working, including driving u must show a minimum 15 min break, up to 9 hours u just show 30 minutes, any time working after 9 hours is minimum 45 min.
Plus over either a 13 or 26 week period whatever he company wants your average working hours must not exceed 48. My company work on 26 weeks, week 1 is 1at Monday in the new year for the next 26 weeks, then it starts again.
If I go off sick each day is classed as working which equals 8 hours, if a whole week my hours are classed as 48 hours working even though I have been off sick. This is also the same for holidays up to 20 days anything after 20 days but not including bank holidays are zero hours, all bank holidays are zero hours if u have not worked.
Transport can either opt in or opt out, my company opted out which means we must still follows these rules, but can work more than 48 hours a week.
So 3 weeks ago on Friday my last drop completed in Peterborough, that week I had worked 46 hours in total, I had enough driving time to get back, if we had opted in I would not have got back as my journey is more than 2 hours, so I would have had to have my weekly rest in Peterborough. Hope this makes it clearer. I will not explain POA, as these complicated matters further.
So you can see why ditching WTD legislation will help.

 

[jessiejames]

EU driving regulations, total 9 hours a day, but can be increased to 10 hours twice a week, maximum working hours is 15 hours that includes driving and other work, but does not include period of availability. Daily rest just be 10 hours reduced to 9 twice a week, weekly rest must be a minimum of 45 hours. Driving time is every second your vehicle is moving, it doesn't include when you are stationary, ie at lights. Loading/unloading as this is working time unless u are POA.
,

WTD hours these hours run the at the same time. Up to 6 hours working, including driving u must show a minimum 15 min break, up to 9 hours u just show 30 minutes, any time working after 9 hours is minimum 45 min.
Plus over either a 13 or 26 week period whatever he company wants your average working hours must not exceed 48. My company work on 26 weeks, week 1 is 1at Monday in the new year for the next 26 weeks, then it starts again.
If I go off sick each day is classed as working which equals 8 hours, if a whole week my hours are classed as 48 hours working even though I have been off sick. This is also the same for holidays up to 20 days anything after 20 days but not including bank holidays are zero hours, all bank holidays are zero hours if u have not worked.
Transport can either opt in or opt out, my company opted out which means we must still follows these rules, but can work more than 48 hours a week.
So 3 weeks ago on Friday my last drop completed in Peterborough, that week I had worked 46 hours in total, I had enough driving time to get back, if we had opted in I would not have got back as my journey is more than 2 hours, so I would have had to have my weekly rest in Peterborough. Hope this makes it clearer. I will not explain POA, as these complicated matters further.
So you can see why ditching WTD legislation will help.

Sorry forgot under EU hours a driver can only work a maximum of 60 hours a week including driving and other work but not POA.