A country run by the church. Of course we are.

[smartferndale]

Baptist view

The Church of England has problems as its old buildings have to be repaired in the materials and styles of original buildings. Baptist churches do not have the same problem. Therefore can give a greater percentage of income.

England may not be a Christian country but a majority I would guess accept Christian values. Certainly England would be better if more did. Love your neighbour, self control, patience and turning the other cheek. Any High Street on a weekend evening is evidence of the full in moral standards.

Faith and politics cannot be separated. How can Christians accept the cuts in Disability allowance, massive bankers bonuses and tax evasion by multi national companies. We all have a duty to help the poor and disadvantaged, those in crisis in the world through no fault of their own. What other nation in the world can have two charities raising over £100 million in one year through televised appeals. Evidence that Christian values are still alive and kicking in many households.

 

[clapham_gull]

How bizarre. The Tories have never seen eye to eye with the Vicars in my lifetime. Far too socialist for them.

I can only imagine this is a post Gay Marriage olive branch.

Either that or Dave has completely lost the plot.

 

[The Spanish]

How bizarre. The Tories have never seen eye to eye with the Vicars in my lifetime. Far too socialist for them.

I can only imagine this is a post Gay Marriage olive branch.

Either that or Dave has completely lost the plot.

alternatively a very smart (in terms of political expediency, not condoning it for a minute) and well timed pronouncement on the holiest period of the christian calendar, to smoke out the ones who will react negatively with a pavlonian response to anything that smacks of 'traditional' British values, at a time when Farage is eating into that vote. it might be unpalatable to many, but no denying it's crafty.

 

[The Camel]

The link between Church and State is far too strong imo.

I have an eight year old son.

Every school we had the choice of sending him to is a Christian faith school.

I would prefer he was taught facts not religious mumbo jumbo.

But I have no option unless I move or drive to a school 15 miles away.

 

[Silk]

The link between Church and State is far too strong imo.

I have an eight year old son.

Every school we had the choice of sending him to is a Christian faith school.

I would prefer he was taught facts not religious mumbo jumbo.

But I have no option unless I move or drive to a school 15 miles away.

I think the religious mumbo jumbo is fairly minimal in a C of E school. They do have to stick to the curriculum like everyone else.

 

[The Truth]

For Gods sake, how the bloody hell is this country controlled by Christianity?

If so, Holy shit!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

We have already starting to see the impact of some religions and how they have gone about trying to change things, and that is when the religion is in the minority. What will happen when a different religion is the majority in this country. Take for example where they have been trying to take control of these schools, is that not warning enough? the government needs to wake up. I'm not comfortable with that and neither are other people.

 

[jimhigham]

I think the religious mumbo jumbo is fairly minimal in a C of E school. They do have to stick to the curriculum like everyone else.

My daughter attended a C of E primary school. I'd rather she hadn't but the choice was very limited. While the curriculum was taught adequately I was surprised at just how many ways the school did insert religion into classes.

Schools are religious for a reason. They are not entirely altruistic and have a vested interest in perpetuating the next generation of the faithful.

Personally, I would rather that schooling remained secular. By all means have a religious education component teaching about the major faiths, as religion is a major part of the world we live in and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. However, I would rather that this remained a standalone lesson in isolation of the remainder of the curriculum. Schools for education, churches for faith.

The church now paints these views as being "intolerant secularism". I would counter this by pointing out that secularism provides the freedom for all people to practice their faith on an equal footing. Cameron's remarks by definition suggest preference for Christianity over other faiths.

On a final note, just how does it help to teach children that we are equals and to live peacably when we segregate them by faith at a young age and tell them that other people are different?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

My daughter attended a C of E primary school. I'd rather she hadn't but the choice was very limited. While the curriculum was taught adequately I was surprised at just how many ways the school did insert religion into classes.

Schools are religious for a reason. They are not entirely altruistic and have a vested interest in perpetuating the next generation of the faithful.

Personally, I would rather that schooling remained secular. By all means have a religious education component teaching about the major faiths, as religion is a major part of the world we live in and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. However, I would rather that this remained a standalone lesson in isolation of the remainder of the curriculum. Schools for education, churches for faith.

The church now paints these views as being "intolerant secularism". I would counter this by pointing out that secularism provides the freedom for all people to practice their faith on an equal footing. Cameron's remarks by definition suggest preference for Christianity over other faiths.

On a final note, just how does it help to teach children that we are equals and to live peacably when we segregate them by faith at a young age and tell them that other people are different?

They should. Every child attending school needs to leave their religion at home. When you bring religion in to schools it creates division.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20130909/france-to-unveil-seculariam-charter-in-schools

 

[Silk]

My daughter attended a C of E primary school. I'd rather she hadn't but the choice was very limited. While the curriculum was taught adequately I was surprised at just how many ways the school did insert religion into classes.

Schools are religious for a reason. They are not entirely altruistic and have a vested interest in perpetuating the next generation of the faithful.

Personally, I would rather that schooling remained secular. By all means have a religious education component teaching about the major faiths, as religion is a major part of the world we live in and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. However, I would rather that this remained a standalone lesson in isolation of the remainder of the curriculum. Schools for education, churches for faith.

The church now paints these views as being "intolerant secularism". I would counter this by pointing out that secularism provides the freedom for all people to practice their faith on an equal footing. Cameron's remarks by definition suggest preference for Christianity over other faiths.

On a final note, just how does it help to teach children that we are equals and to live peacably when we segregate them by faith at a young age and tell them that other people are different?

I haven't noticed any segregation.

How is your idea of a religious component "teaching about major faiths" not saying that "other people are different"?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Faith schools are just another form of socially selective schooling so they will always have people wanting to go to them and seeing as only 13% of people in the UK call themselves Christians I imagine most of those pupils consist of the children of parents who aren't the least bit religious.

I agree with you that religion ( not just Christianity ) has too much influence in this country BUT I'm not sure where you get 13% from. The last published census states 59% of the country class themselves as Christian.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Did they? Genuinely interested to know when this happened. I thought everyone had chancel repair insurance anyway these days?

I can't find a link at the moment but there was a programme a couple of years ago that highlighted this issue. The CoE has built a team to specifically comb records to find people who might be liable. Much of the information they are searching through is old church records whose details aren't held by the land registry. The consequence is that there are people getting sudden demands for payment from the Church when they didn't know they were liable. A solicitor will generally only recommend the insurance if they think there is a risk ( based on Land Registry information ). Personally I find it rather immoral that the church want people with no connection to their organisation expect to them to pay for the upkeep of a church property. They should sell some assets.

 

[Nibble]

I agree with you that religion ( not just Christianity ) has too much influence in this country BUT I'm not sure where you get 13% from. The last published census states 59% of the country class themselves as Christian.

13% Practising Christians. The question on the census asks what religion are you? In a white, Anglo - Saxon environment I would expect nearer 80% to say Christian rather than 59%. So, in short we have 59% that say they are Christians and hardly any that bother attending Church.

 

[piersa]

Religion is THE cornerstone of social unrest and I hate it. Cameron's nonsense claim that he is a Christian just makes my skin crawl. He is using it as a political football to get votes. Disingenuous and embarrassing.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

13% Practising Christians. The question on the census asks what religion are you? In a white, Anglo - Saxon environment I would expect nearer 80% to say Christian rather than 59%. So, in short we have 59% that say they are Christians and hardly any that bother attending Church.

By "practising" I assume you mean they attend church regularly ? If so I'm a non-practising Albion fan ( as I'm sure are many others ) which I guess skews the stats slightly. That said I fully agree that the church and state should be completely separated - much like in France.

 

[Nibble]

By "practising" I assume you mean they attend church regularly ? If so I'm a non-practising Albion fan ( as I'm sure are many others ) which I guess skews the stats slightly. That said I fully agree that the church and state should be completely separated - much like in France.

Yes and No. A lot of the 59% ticked Christian because they had no other true option. Most people in the UK are assumed to be Christian or are just born a Christian as it were. It doesn't mean they have any interest in the religion.

 

[jimhigham]

How is your idea of a religious component "teaching about major faiths" not saying that "other people are different"?

The child is not placed in a faith before the lesson has even started. There is a big difference between teaching the child how the major faiths have come about and what their tenets are, and beginning with the premise "we believe this...".

As I say, my view is a personal one and I don't expect it to be taken up at all. Politically speaking, there is no will to dismantle faith schools and those that want to see them removed are probably in the minority.

However, I would invite you to simply pause and consider why you feel it would be damaging to any faith to have all children taught the building blocks of critical thinking alongside a basic grounding in the major religions? Why is that so harmful? It is not as though we are short of churches, temples, mosques, gurdwaras and so on to provide more advanced religious instruction if it is desired.

We clearly differ on this matter but I am grateful that we do so in a country enlightened enough to allow this free exchange of ideas. Good luck to you, whoever you are.

This might make for an interesting poll. I may look at that later but this is all a bit cerebral for me when I am off nights and should be sleeping.

 

[Silk]

Religion is THE cornerstone of social unrest and I hate it. Cameron's nonsense claim that he is a Christian just makes my skin crawl. He is using it as a political football to get votes. Disingenuous and embarrassing.

It is just one of many reasons for conflict. We've had two world wars in which millions of people died. Neither of those was caused by religion.

You are right about Cameron though.

 

[Silk]

The child is not placed in a faith before the lesson has even started. There is a big difference between teaching the child how the major faiths have come about and what their tenets are, and beginning with the premise "we believe this...".

As I say, my view is a personal one and I don't expect it to be taken up at all. Politically speaking, there is no will to dismantle faith schools and those that want to see them removed are probably in the minority.

However, I would invite you to simply pause and consider why you feel it would be damaging to any faith to have all children taught the building blocks of critical thinking alongside a basic grounding in the major religions? Why is that so harmful? It is not as though we are short of churches, temples, mosques, gurdwaras and so on to provide more advanced religious instruction if it is desired.

We clearly differ on this matter but I am grateful that we do so in a country enlightened enough to allow this free exchange of ideas. Good luck to you, whoever you are.

This might make for an interesting poll. I may look at that later but this is all a bit cerebral for me when I am off nights and should be sleeping.

But by and large children are not "placed in a faith" by schools. They are placed in a faith by their parents.

I don't think it would be damaging to any faith to have critical thinking taught. In fact I've long thought that it should be.

All I really think is that there is a tendency to exaggerate the damage caused by church schools, I really don't think they do any harm at all.

 

[jimhigham]

All I really think is that there is a tendency to exaggerate the damage caused by church schools, I really don't think they do any harm at all.

We are not so very far apart as you might imagine. The C of E schools are relatively benign and I would generally agree with you in that they probably cause little harm. The longer term effect of separating out children at a young age and teaching the competing faiths is nebulous and more debatable. However, there are both Islamic and Christian schools teaching a literal approach to their scriptures and this leads to pupils being taught science that is plain wrong. I would contend that at the very least that is harmful to a child's development.

Also, on the point you make about the two world wars being unrelated to religion, I could point out that Hitler, oft said to be an atheist, made a great play of his faith for his own ends (Gott Mit Uns). However, I absolutely do agree with you that religion is simply one of several things that mankind can be made to fight over: territory, resources and politics to name but a few.

You see? We can agree about some stuff.