3 UK Schoolgirls gone to Syria

[BadFish]

Why is it always down to us!

If young Muslim lads and girls get on with life and keep themselves to themselves (like most British kids do) they'll be left to live a nice peaceful life.

Your posts worry me Mustafa because you make me and many others on here sound racist and we are not... we are just fed up with the nonsense that this 'religion' seems to breed.

i think you are being a little unfair on Mustafa's point here. I don't think he is suggesting it is down to us (unless I have misunderstood the 'us' you are talking about.

However there is a part we can play in improving the situation. The way i see it is that we have a choice to make on how we deal with extremism. We can either focus on the extremists and work with the rest of the islamic community to work out the best way to deal with them. Or we can frame everything as a Islam problem and tar all Muslims with the same brush (whilst labelling anyone who doesn't toe the line as an apologist). Personally I think the second option is incredibly dangerous and will bring about a rich and fertile breeding ground for extremists to brainwash disillusioned and vulnerable young Muslims.

Sadly at present I think there are too many choosing the second option to make the first viable

 

[BadFish]

The problem with much of Islam is that there seems to be a shorter pathway to extremism, if you have a been labelled by naive British politicians that you are moderate going to pray 5 times a day, structurally modifying your lifestyle and prioritising Islam above anything else then there must only be one or two steps beyond this before becoming quite extreme.

I dont see other religions seemingly start with such a set of conditions, or at least very few choose to follow them so vigorously, so being Christian is generally quite lax in its choices and in its penalties, the journey for those to something extreme seems a far longer and therefore unlikely journey.

Its the acceptance of 'moderate' Islam without challenge which has created an environment where radicalisation is just a few sermons away.

I think you are doing a great disservice to many millions of peaceful Muslims here

 

[cjd]

I think you are doing a great disservice to many millions of peaceful Muslims here

How many muslims do you have there in Australia ?

 

[beorhthelm]

...I dont see other religions seemingly start with such a set of conditions, or at least very few choose to follow them so vigorously, so being Christian is generally quite lax in its choices and in its penalties, the journey for those to something extreme seems a far longer and therefore unlikely journey.

clearly you havent read any history of europe or christianity. or any other region or religion. they are all full of their extremists.

 

[BigGully]

I think you are doing a great disservice to many millions of peaceful Muslims here

No I am not, my point stands, being moderate in a Western sense is not prioritising your religion above anything else, their actions even if wholly peaceful are still quite extreme and are bound to encourage division.

Its no good you exclaiming 'peaceful Muslims', as if somehow 'peaceful' should be seen as some added extra and worthy of praise, all Muslims should be peaceful as a given and regrettably many are not.

 

[BadFish]

How many muslims do you have there in Australia ?

I don't have any

We still have many people banging on about the 'Muslim' Problem though don't worry about that. Only this week one of our senators only this week suggested bringing back the death penalty for terrorism.

Just had a quick look - 2% of our population is Muslims Versus 5% of yours (not a massive difference really is it?). Although the percived percentage of both countries is the same (16%) But then again we do both enjoy the Murdoch press

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ns-think-muslim-population-nine-times-greater

 

[BigGully]

clearly you havent read any history of europe or christianity. or any other region or religion. they are all full of their extremists.[/QUOTE}

I am fully aware of religion in a historical sense, but this is 2015 on the streets of London now is not the time to return to the storytelling in caves.

 

[BadFish]

No I am not, my point stands, being moderate in a Western sense is not prioritising your religion above anything else, their actions even if wholly peaceful are still quite extreme and are bound to encourage division.

Its no good you exclaiming 'peaceful Muslims', as if somehow 'peaceful' should be seen as some added extra and worthy of praise, all Muslims should be peaceful as a given and regrettably many are not.

I don't believe that being peaceful is an added extra at all. Every muslim I have ever met has been peaceful. The vast majority of muslims are peaceful a very small minority are not.

i think it is dangerous, unhelpful and inaccurate to assume that all Muslims are just a couple of sermons away from extremism. Are you just baing this on the fact that they are required to do certain things in order to practice their religion?

 

[BadFish]

clearly you havent read any history of europe or christianity. or any other region or religion. they are all full of their extremists.[/QUOTE}

I am fully aware of religion in a historical sense, but this is 2015 on the streets of London now is not the time to return to the storytelling in caves.

So you are suggesting that someone who practises religion and follows the teaching of a story is somehow less likely to be peaceful that someone who doesn't beleive those stories? So an athiest is more likely to be peaceful that a Christian or Muslim?

 

[BigGully]

So you are suggesting that someone who practises religion and follows the teaching of a story is somehow less likely to be peaceful that someone who doesn't beleive those stories? So an athiest is more likely to be peaceful that a Christian or Muslim?

Abso-bloody-lutely, I think I have history on my side on this one .......

 

[BadFish]

Abso-bloody-lutely, I think I have history on my side on this one .......

History is really a fair measure though is it, through most of history you weren't allowed to be an athiest.

I was assuming that as you discounted history you were only talking about in this day and age?

If we are using History as a yardstick then it really is undeniable that Christianity has just as much barbarism and extremism as Islam.

 

[Mr Blobby]

Sadly the three girls will find out they were free to think in this country and free to act as they please. One they arrive in "paradise" they will find reality a little different. They will enter a world of being treated as second class citizens with no rights to work or education. No doubt it is all our fault, we obviously didn't make them feel welcome in the UK. I am sure that we would be treated with humanity and helped to set up a christian place of worship in an IS controlled state in Syria. Integration and tolerance works both ways. Its always our responsibility to make integration works, whilst the intolerant minorities demand more and more and expect us to adapt to the way they want to live. Bollocks to that.

 

[BigGully]

History is really a fair measure though is it, through most of history you weren't allowed to be an athiest.

Religion creates division, this I am sure we can all agree on.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

I think it's really important to try to understand the mindset of British-Muslims who become radicalised, but also remember that out of the 2.6 million Muslim in Britain, it is still extremely rare.

And some of us think it's really important for Muslims to try to understand and, gradually, come to share the mindset of people who have been brought up to think rationally and critically for themselves, free from the poison of religious indoctrination that's drip-fed daily into impressionable young minds.

End the brainwashing to end the bloodshed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Abso-bloody-lutely, I think I have history on my side on this one .......

Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Kim Jong-il,Kim Jong-un etc etc. All atheists but not peaceloving.

 

[BadFish]

Religion creates division, this I am sure we can all agree on.

Not really sure about this. I think people cause division. religion is a human construct used to divide. If it weren't for religion we would (and have) find something else.

 

[BigGully]

Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Kim Jong-il,Kim Jong-un etc etc. All atheists but not peaceloving.

I never quite said that all atheist were peace loving, religion is still quite good at being blood thirsty.

 

[jimhigham]

How did 3 single, clearly arabic minors get through security at Gatwick?

Security exists to check if a person is carrying prohibited items that might endanger an aircraft. They don't get into a passenger's reason for travel.

There has been no routine Border Force checks on embarking passengers since 1997.

The counter terrorist police at the airport are stretched thinner than a Rizla and can barely keep pace with monitoring arriving passengers.

The airlines are commercial organisations that only care if a ticket has been bought and paid for.

In short, nobody is really looking.

Worrying.

 

[looney]

History is really a fair measure though is it, through most of history you weren't allowed to be an athiest.

I was assuming that as you discounted history you were only talking about in this day and age?

If we are using History as a yardstick then it really is undeniable that Christianity has just as much barbarism and extremism as Islam.

Here you go again, spouting of on something you know little about.

Firstly they are not comparable, the barbarism of Islam dwarfs other religions.

Secondly Islam is by their own definition timeless, unchanging. wereas Christianitys excesses were put to rest a long time ago.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I never quite said that all atheist were peace loving, religion is still quite good at being blood thirsty.

Humans are quite good at being blood thirsty. Religion is a reason, as is greed, power and money.