Good knowledge! 26 miles each way. I’m only planning on doing that commute once a week on the bike though.That’s in Wollaston, long way to cycle from Flitwick
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[News] 2030 and Electric cars.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
GOM
living vicariously
There is plenty of those materials around, so your understanding is not correct. Also when used in batteries it recoverable and re-usable again. As already stated batteries are moving away from cobalt use, however it's still needed for the refining of oil so the mining for that will continue. Nickel is not used in batteries. Lithium is plentiful with Australia being the biggest extractor, Germany the largest in Europe.
Mr Bridger
Sound of the suburbs
If you work there, must be either Dr Martens or Scott Bader
Cobalt-free batteries are here, so why are we still mining the mineral?
Cobalt mining is linked to child labor and loss of habitat to local wildlife -- and its use is increasing. Can battery innovation end it?
thenextweb.com
“Probably”, he says, slightly uneasily for fear of the veil of anonymity being lifted!If you work there, must be either Dr Martens or Scott Bader
GOM
living vicariously
Would you expect to find a parking space for the game where you could fill your petrol car? Like any EV driver you would top up before parking ready for the return if needed.
Why would you spend 30k minimum or even 10k on any car to do just 1-2k miles a year?
Horses Arse
Well-known member
I reckon it's one of those things where when you jump you see all the benefits and find working around the negatives very straight forward.
I've no doubt that my next car will be electric, but hope there will be less/no need to own a car by then. That said, I'll not be changing cars until the current one is pleading for mercy. I've had it 5 years and it should provide at least another 8 years. They are made well these days and don't need changing frequently - by then the car will be 15 years old and will have gone some way to justify the massive energy investment in creating it.
Getting full life out of cars, and all other consumer products, is the most sustainable way. Unfortunately those with the loudest voices are those benefitting from unsustainable consumerism.
I can fill up my old-skool car almost anywhere and it takes a couple of minutes so that's not really comparable.........the infrastructure for EV charging isn't anywhere near good enough yet IMO.
No I wouldn't......but equally wouldn't want an old EV with potentially crap battery life so would want new/nearly new.
Mrs needs a car, so she's got one (15 year old Getz, less than 30k on the clock). We can't share a car unfortunately - a small EV will be the obvious answer at some point but I won't be using it much.
GOM
living vicariously
The infra structure is improving rapidly, but reading the fossil fuel lobby led propaganda won't give that impression. It is still behind the curve due to the growing uptake of EVs, though. I travel all over and with a little planning the infrastructure is generally coping. (other than Tesla's at Christmas
Again battery life !!!!!! more FUD, the batteries will outlast the car, please take the effort to find out about this and the other nonsense thrown out by the oil industry.
Why should the clever propogandists of the oil industry want to delay/prevent the uptake of renewable electric power and everything it powers ?
Well imagine if you were paid £40,000 every day since the year zero (2023 as I write) you still would not have as much money as the oil companies made in PROFIT, not turnover, in just the last 3 quarter.
You might be surprised. Went on holiday to the Gower Peninsula in Wales last year. Went to a beach well outside any built up areas and found x3 Tesla charging spots in the car park (note: Tesla chargers are now open to anyone, not just Tesla).
Yup, exactly. When I took delivery of my Zoe a few years back there was nowhere in Uckfield to charge it (other than at home). Since then Tesco have had chargers installed in their carpark, there's a couple other bays appeared in a public carpark, and I believe there's plans for bays to put into at least one other council carpark ... not to mention there's a full-on charging station (with solar farm) been approved to get onto the A22 just outside Uckfield. Lewes Tesco also has bays, and BP in Lewes has installed chargers recently as well.
Infrastructure is definitely expanding rapidly. It's still at a point where you need to plan ahead (but there's plenty of Apps available to do that planning for you) if doing longer trips, but with the likes of Tesco having installed chargers where they have carparks, and it looks like BP are rolling them out on their forecourts, it's rapidly becoming fairly easy to find chargers.
I will be keeping an eye - Mrs D's car will be past it's useful life soon so that will trigger a look I suspect as a small EV alongside the big car would be ideal as installing a charging point at home would be easy (and fed by the PV panels). Not planning on changing the big motor for 5 years anyway so plenty of time for the things to improve.The infra structure is improving rapidly, but reading the fossil fuel lobby led propaganda won't give that impression. It is still behind the curve due to the growing uptake of EVs, though. I travel all over and with a little planning the infrastructure is generally coping. (other than Tesla's at Christmas
Again battery life !!!!!! more FUD, the batteries will outlast the car, please take the effort to find out about this and the other nonsense thrown out by the oil industry.
Why should the clever propogandists of the oil industry want to delay/prevent the uptake of renewable electric power and everything it powers ?
Well imagine if you were paid £40,000 every day since the year zero (2023 as I write) you still would not have as much money as the oil companies made in PROFIT, not turnover, in just the last 3 quarter.
Couple of close mates who have EVs have had several issues with availablity of charging points when on long journeys.
Horses Arse
Well-known member
Who do you believe? The oil industry lobbyists, the tesla/car manufacturers lobbyists, the mining lobbyists? Do you ignore all of the facts you know about batteries and battery life and assume these batteries in cars are entirely different? That those lobbying for them are being straight?The infra structure is improving rapidly, but reading the fossil fuel lobby led propaganda won't give that impression. It is still behind the curve due to the growing uptake of EVs, though. I travel all over and with a little planning the infrastructure is generally coping. (other than Tesla's at Christmas
Again battery life !!!!!! more FUD, the batteries will outlast the car, please take the effort to find out about this and the other nonsense thrown out by the oil industry.
Why should the clever propogandists of the oil industry want to delay/prevent the uptake of renewable electric power and everything it powers ?
Well imagine if you were paid £40,000 every day since the year zero (2023 as I write) you still would not have as much money as the oil companies made in PROFIT, not turnover, in just the last 3 quarter.
I really don't know, but I don't trust politicians on such matters because it is all about consumerism and capitalism.
Who remembers diesel cars being the way forward? Biomass boilers perhaps? Air source heat pumps that are extremely efficient when heating in summer are the current darlings. I'm quite traditional and only heat the house in winter.
So much nuance and selective facts out there. I'm sticking right now and will see what's available and sounds sensible in about a decades time if I'm still around. It wouldnt surprise me that much if the celebrated direction will be different then.
RandyWanger
Je suis rôti de boeuf
I watched 2 Hydrogen powered cars (one using fuel cells, the other a traditional ICE) lap the circuit de la Sarthe on the weekend. Typically, Le Mans is the testing ground for road production cars, a lot of innovations have come from this race (lights, wipers, abs, tc, hybrids...) yet no one has seriously gone all in on an electric race car (Nissan tried in 2014 but gave up) Toyota see hydrogen as the future, interesting to see what happens.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
I would enthusiastic converts to the first paragraph! I don't mean to pick on you @GOM but you mentioned that "a mere 190 miles, any reasonable EV will do that with ease without the need to stop and charge" but then said "my real world range drops from about 240 to around 200" - That's where I start to less trust what I'm told by the enthusiast because I don't think your 200 mile range covers 190 "with ease", that 10 mile tolerance would give me a lot of stress! Maybe I'm missing your point here and I'm really not trying to trip you up but personally I'm looking for balance in a discussion - There are some things for some people that are problematic about EVs right now and it's useful to embrace that and help people weigh things up more factually.
So ... by the time we get to 2030 any brand new EV will be able to manage over 300 miles - even the smaller runabouts. The drop in range over winter should become smaller as well, as new battery tech makes its way into the cars.
Horses Arse
Well-known member
Totally agree it needs a balanced discussion but there's so much interference in the discussion and misinformation seems to be celebrated these days. I'm genuinely not sure what to believe, but am pretty certain sticking with what I have whilst it is drivable is the best option. If I had to change now then who knows. Probably a cheap old ice whilst the facts emerge tbh. If I was buying every two years then it's not a problem but I go for 10 years plus so want to be sure
I think that's a perfectly sensible approach. It really needs to be a phased transition. Getting EVs to where they need to be needs enthusiasts / early adopters (like myself) who help to move the R&D and infrastructure development etc in the right direction. Over time, folks like yourself - who are absolutely right IMO to get what life they can out of their existing ICE - who do eventually make the shift to EV are able to do so with a full range of choice from second/third hand through to brand new. In my case, I jumped at a point in time when 1) my wife's Ford Focus Ecoboost had become a ticking reliability time bomb (with only 45k miles on the clock ... thanks Ford), 2) my Prius company car contract was expiring with a right-to-buy attached, and 3) there was an affordable EV option that was financially better than the Prius was for my long commute. So we ditched the Focus, switched the Prius over to my Mrs, and I got a new shiny to play with. It's likely we'll keep the Prius until it's done (now 7 years old and creeping up on 100k miles, still running like a train). The Zoe has to go back to the leasing company next year (4 year lease) where it'll go into the second hand market. I'll have a decision to make on whether to lease new again (another 4 year) or go into the second hand market for a current gen EV.
It will be interesting to see (I'm not sure if it's been decided yet) what the minimum zero-emission running for a Hybrid / PHEV will be for the 2030 transition. As an example, when I was doing my Uckfield-Uxbridge commute pre-Covid my Prius was averaging between 30-35% running on electric, but that was off the back of an ICE that was achieving 75-80 mpg. So either the government sets that minimum EV running threshold so low that it's meaningless and all current hybrids remain eligible to be sold, or they set it high enough that it effectively bans non-plug-in hybrids.
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beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,027
i understood all ICE get banned, including hybrids. EV or alternatives only available for sale from 2030.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,632
Yep. That's what Boris Johnson said and I have reason to doubt it will happen.
No, it's phased. From 2030 ICE-only are banned, but hybrid / PHEV still allowed (under a criteria yet to be set). Then 2035 it will be zero-emissions at the tail pipe only: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...of-sale-of-new-petrol-and-diesel-cars-by-2030