[News] 2030 and Electric cars.

[zefarelly]

Cars are silly big now but a lot of that is for safety which is fair enough. Estate cars are much more practical than SUVs. I'd love a camper van. Away games would be cool in one.

Garages are rarely used for cars due to being stupidly narrow. Add in the expectation of ownership at age 17 and you have your parking and congestion answer.

For years I have wandered off for a bit of shopping with a rucksack. I know people that make excuses to go out in the motor and drive such silly distances that a blue badge holder would frown at. I ain't no raspberry.

I am more likely to get an emotorbike. Ebikes are brilliant. Now we are into BST, I am trying to ride to work as much as possible 18+ miles is a piece of piss but I'm lucky to have a shower otherwise it would not work. I might have to get an ebike as I get older because my legs fukken hurt with consecutive day commutes. I won't commute in the dark or cold/wet though.

Maybe I like being outside and am claustrophobic. I'm not scared of flying but 4 hours is my tops because it annoys me.

THis is a general rant, not aimed

Cars are silly big because it makes people feel big. No other reason. There are small cars with 4-5 star Ncap safety ratings that are more than capable of doing 50% more than the speed limit. And breaking past it because theyre 1/3 the weight.

Garages are big enough for cars, unless they're new build. Which are built to a regulation . . . To house mountain bikes and paddle boards and some other crap as the gardens are too small for a shed. ( another debate )

I will convert a Lambretta to electric motor at some point, and I'm tempted to do it to something extremely rare, and original, just to prove a point . . .

The key to future transport , locally, is getting people out of cars and getting vans/lorries off most roads. . . . Which were built before cars were invented!

A new rash is the 'look at me, I work from home and cycle to the office/work' but you have a diesel belching van deliver to you 7+ times a week . . . . we are all guilty of that.

Clearly, no simple answers, and increasingly we are a polarised population, but there are a few common faults, which didn't exist 20-25 years ago . . . IMHO, they need to do one first. . .

 

[zefarelly]

You say that but an X5 isn't enough for some, hence the X7.

Give it 6 months, the person I'm thinking of is 'big boned' and my guess is still growing.

 

[Stat Brother]

Cars are silly big now but a lot of that is for safety which is fair enough. Estate cars are much more practical than SUVs. I'd love a camper van. Away games would be cool in one.

Garages are rarely used for cars due to being stupidly narrow. Add in the expectation of ownership at age 17 and you have your parking and congestion answer.

For years I have wandered off for a bit of shopping with a rucksack. I know people that make excuses to go out in the motor and drive such silly distances that a blue badge holder would frown at. I ain't no raspberry.

I am more likely to get an emotorbike. Ebikes are brilliant. Now we are into BST, I am trying to ride to work as much as possible 18+ miles is a piece of piss but I'm lucky to have a shower otherwise it would not work. I might have to get an ebike as I get older because my legs fukken hurt with consecutive day commutes. I won't commute in the dark or cold/wet though.

Maybe I like being outside and am claustrophobic. I'm not scared of flying but 4 hours is my tops because it annoys me.

The safety of the person inside the car - f*** everyone else.


I assume had the industry been selling us small and light, over the last 20 years, battery distance and life would now be longer.

 

[Horses Arse]

THis is a general rant, not aimed

Cars are silly big because it makes people feel big. No other reason. There are small cars with 4-5 star Ncap safety ratings that are more than capable of doing 50% more than the speed limit. And breaking past it because theyre 1/3 the weight.

Garages are big enough for cars, unless they're new build. Which are built to a regulation . . . To house mountain bikes and paddle boards and some other crap as the gardens are too small for a shed. ( another debate )

I will convert a Lambretta to electric motor at some point, and I'm tempted to do it to something extremely rare, and original, just to prove a point . . .

The key to future transport , locally, is getting people out of cars and getting vans/lorries off most roads. . . . Which were built before cars were invented!

A new rash is the 'look at me, I work from home and cycle to the office/work' but you have a diesel belching van deliver to you 7+ times a week . . . . we are all guilty of that.

Clearly, no simple answers, and increasingly we are a polarised population, but there are a few common faults, which didn't exist 20-25 years ago . . . IMHO, they need to do one first. . .

Good rant!!

 

[chickens]

The safety of the person inside the car - f*** everyone else.


I assume had the industry been selling us small and light, over the last 20 years, battery distance and life would now be longer.

Absolutely agree there’s an arms race in car size and especially height.

Suddenly people who’d bought Fiesta sized cars for decades didn’t feel safe in their Fiesta and couldn’t see in front of them due to the proliferation of SUVs, so their next car is a Juke or a Kuga. They start restricting the visibility of the guy in his Range Rover Evoque, so their next car is an X5 or a full-fat Range Rover. And so it goes on…

 

[GOM]

Most of my long mileage is football awaydays, and I need a decent sized motor for fishing…..…an EV would be way too inconvenient (as well as costing c15k+ more to start with). Last thing I want to do on, say, returning from Nottingham at midnight having already been diverted off the M1 and then twice off the M25 adding over an hour to the trip is stop for another 45 mins+ waiting for the car to pick up enough charge to get me home (assuming I can find a vacant and working charge point).

You used a poor example there for your case. Nottingham to Burgess Hill is a mere 190 miles, any reasonable EV will do that with ease without the need to stop and charge.

Don't know what your budget is but if it's only £1200 then yep no EVs at that price, but for your 15k too much you could have this.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

 

[wellquickwoody]

... and the cost of buying such a car?

Having to look at it!

 

[GOM]

...

Mrs D does about 1000 miles a year max pootling to town and back and stuff in an old Hyundai…..would love to get us a small EV to replace that but can’t justify spending upwards of 30k on something that will do a couple of thousand miles a year

You don't need to spend 30k on a car to pootle about for a couple of thousand miles a year, how about one for less than 7k.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

You seem to think all electric cars cost more than 30k, they don't,.
Have you seen how much ICE cars cost now

 

[Audax]

You used a poor example there for your case. Nottingham to Burgess Hill is a mere 190 miles, any reasonable EV will do that with ease without the need to stop and charge.

Don't know what your budget is but if it's only £1200 then yep no EVs at that price, but for your 15k too much you could have this.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Of course, the elephant in the room with EVs remains the degradation in battery range in cold weather. My Zoe goes from 240-250 miles range in summer (I've even seen a 65 mile mostly motorway trip last year where the extrapolated range would be more like 275 miles) to 180 miles in winter (for longer trips) to as low as 140-150 miles (if it's all short school runs and grocery runs).

 

[GOM]

Of course, the elephant in the room with EVs remains the degradation in battery range in cold weather. My Zoe goes from 240-250 miles range in summer (I've even seen a 65 mile mostly motorway trip last year where the extrapolated range would be more like 275 miles) to 180 miles in winter (for longer trips) to as low as 140-150 miles (if it's all short school runs and grocery runs).

Not quite an elephant, but I take your point.
Your range drop seems quite excessive, my real world range drops from about 240 to around 200, quite livable with since I don't do 200 miles many days of the year.

 

[Audax]

You don't need to spend 30k on a car to pootle about for a couple of thousand miles a year, how about one for less than 7k.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

You seem to think all electric cars cost more than 30k, they don't,.

Not sure I'd pay for a 2016 Leaf. That's old enough that the battery probably isn't delivering anywhere near the range it claims, especially in winter.

But your point is still good - the second hand market for EVs is starting to get a lot more supply now. With that increase in supply comes better deals for the buyer if you're patient. 3 year old current tech Renault Zoe's (ZE50 versions) that cost around £30k new are available on the second hand market for under £15k now, and they're a very good little car (and roomier inside than you'd think).

 

[Horses Arse]

Of course, the elephant in the room with EVs remains the degradation in battery range in cold weather. My Zoe goes from 240-250 miles range in summer (I've even seen a 65 mile mostly motorway trip last year where the extrapolated range would be more like 275 miles) to 180 miles in winter (for longer trips) to as low as 140-150 miles (if it's all short school runs and grocery runs).

Does it drop with the A/C on in summer?

30% ish drop in cold weather is horrendous. Worse with age too presumably

 

[Audax]

Does it drop with the A/C on in summer?

30% ish drop in cold weather is horrendous. Worse with age too presumably

Not particularly. I achieve the 240-ish ranges with A/C on. The day I was getting 5.5m/kWh was pretty much perfect though: temp was right in the sweet spot that even though I had A/C on it wasn't doing much more than stirring the air; and the traffic on the M25 was flowing well but speeds were fluctuating between 50 and 65-ish. When the speeds dropped, got the regen, but they didn't drop so far as to incur a big cost getting back up to speed. And at the top end, wasn't getting into that 70-ish zone where you start taking a hit from punching through the air.

In winter it's taking a lot of hits. Some are costlier than others, but it all adds up. At the really costly end there's the fact cold batteries aren't as efficient and don't like being worked as hard ... So you lose both in terms of battery performance/efficiency directly, but also you get a lot less regen back into the battery than in summer. At the smaller end of the scale it's things like heating, having lights on for a higher % of driving, increased usage of wipers etc.

 

[GOM]

Does it drop with the A/C on in summer?

30% ish drop in cold weather is horrendous. Worse with age too presumably

AirCon hardly drops the range at all, using the heater in winter drops it more, part of the reason for range drop.

 

[dazzer6666]

You used a poor example there for your case. Nottingham to Burgess Hill is a mere 190 miles, any reasonable EV will do that with ease without the need to stop and charge.

Don't know what your budget is but if it's only £1200 then yep no EVs at that price, but for your 15k too much you could have this.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

I need to get there and back, why is it a bad example ? Be very lucky to find a parking spqce for the game where I can charge the car at the same time.

Don’t understand your second paragraph, sorry. A decent (new) EV will cost c30k minimum. Can’t justify that for 1-2k miles a year. £15k was the extra (ie 60k instead of 45k) to have our ‘big car’ in EV, not the Mrs’ old runabout small car.

 

[DFL JCL]

The issue with this as I understand it, is that it is unachievable from a supply perspective. The availability of cobalt, lithium and nickel required to create the batteries just simply isn't there. And certainly not without mining it in a completely unethical way from democratic Republic of Congo and Indonesia alike. Not to mention the complete lack of charging infrastructure to support the initiative. The poorer in society will be penalised for not being able to afford a new electric vehicle. The target will be scrapped.

 

[Bedsex]

The only thing that makes cycling a problem is the addiction to cars, particularly massive cars driven by bellends.

Cycling is a fantastic way to get around outside of cretins in cars/lorries,, buses (noting cretins on bikes too of course)

I took this photo after I cycled to work last week, seemed appropriate!

 

[raymondo]

I took this photo after I cycled to work last week, seemed appropriate!
View attachment 162152

nice bike

 

[Mr Bridger]

…

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Of course, the elephant in the room with EVs remains the degradation in battery range in cold weather. My Zoe goes from 240-250 miles range in summer (I've even seen a 65 mile mostly motorway trip last year where the extrapolated range would be more like 275 miles) to 180 miles in winter (for longer trips) to as low as 140-150 miles (if it's all short school runs and grocery runs).

Battery packs hate the cold and it makes them very inefficient hence the drop in mileage.