[News] 2030 and Electric cars.

[beorhthelm]

Electric Cars are likely to be part of the solution but more likely Hydrogen/Synthetic Fuels will make up the transport energy change. Several reasons why - but main ones are: amount of energy used for Lithium boring and massive infrastructure change needed across the network.

F1 have developed a synthetic fuel which is nearly ready for use. Once it can power a car for an entire race, they will use that exclusively - and it powers the engines we all have.

I used to love in south london and the change in the amount of shit in my snot upon moving back to sussex was incredible. Air Pollution is mega, and I support all those schemes.

synthetic fuel has a cost issue. if you can do so with 100% certifiable green energy and get the cost low enough, the trade off is worth it. as i read it, if we cut duties its already commercially viable. question then is the agenda to make vehicles green, make us move to EV, or make us move out of vehicles altogether?

 

[chickens]

There's a bazillion articles about mining lithium and the damage it causes.
I'm sure there are other components too.

Some of the aerial photography on the subject is starkly beautiful.

Most lithium mining takes place in Australia, South America and China. There are horror stories about lithium mining, particularly in some of the South American sites, but there are a number of different techniques, with differing levels of risk and environmental impact. It doesn’t have to be horrendous, but can be if it’s done with no regard for workers or the surrounding environment.

There’s even a couple of sites in Cornwall that look likely sources of lithium currently being commercially explored.

In the short to medium term lithium is plentiful, cheap to extract, and can scale. Like anything dug from the ground however, the supply is finite, and there are plenty of people working on alternative technologies to take lithium out of the equation.

 

[Audax]

plenty of people working on alternative technologies to take lithium out of the equation.

Or use the lithium more efficiently. There's an interesting round up of new battery tech at various stages of development here:

The Future of EV Batteries | GreenCars

Imagine electric car batteries that could take you 500 miles on a charge. How about 1,100 miles on a charge! Incredible new technology is coming soon, from batteries as structural components to batteries extracted from seawater. All this and more is be researched as we speak.

www.greencars.com

 

[Stat Brother]

I was at work earlier and talking of lithium mining wasn't quite hitting the spot.

A secondary search, after my drive home, has me thinking maybe it's the damage done by mining for nickel was forefront when the articles were first being published.

 

[Audax]

I was at work earlier and talking of lithium mining wasn't quite hitting the spot.

A secondary search, after my drive home, has me thinking maybe it's the damage done by mining for nickel was forefront when the articles were first being published.

Cobalt is the one we need to be getting out of the batteries if we can.

 

[Stat Brother]

Cobalt is the one we need to be getting out of the batteries if we can.

Thank you so much, we finally got there - Cobalt mining on Congo

The fact it's the third component highlighted for its environmental damage is rather telling.

 

[beorhthelm]

Thank you so much, we finally got there - Cobalt mining on Congo

View attachment 161927

The fact it's the third component highlighted for its environmental damage is rather telling.

thats a good one, same as copper, iron mines. its the ones in the jungle with kids digging with their hands we want to get rid of.

 

[Horses Arse]

As long

thats a good one, same as copper, iron mines. its the ones in the jungle with kids digging with their hands we want to get rid of.

Provided I've less pollution where I live that's all fine.....

 

[Washie]

Wrong thread

 

[worthingseagull123]

Here's an example. My partner arranged to walk to a work meeting with a friend the other day, with their destination a little over 20 minutes away. On the day they met up at the agreed time and her friend said she was going to drive instead as it was a bit far.

Seems unnecessary to me when the journey is perfectly doable on foot on what was a pleasant sunny day. Seems like when people have a car they instinctively want to use it.

Their choice it may be but it means more congestion, more noise, more exhaust fumes and an unhealthier society.

But they did not consider it unneccessary.

It is not really for you or I to decide what is necessary or not for others.

 

[Bozza]

But they did not consider it unneccessary.

It is not really for you or I to decide what is necessary or not for others.

Well, the journey itself was necessary it seems - there's little dispute on that.

It's the choice of transport method that may or may not be necessary.

I live very close to Vale School in Findon Valley. A lot of people drive their kids to school even though they live close by, ie within a mile or so. There's one particular orange Range Rover that always catches my eye, parked as close to the school as possible every morning, even though I know it comes from just the other side of the A24/A27 cemetery roundabout. I run every day, often down that way, so I know they live pretty much exactly one mile from the school. It's a 20-minute walk even if you amble.

I suspect they spend longer doing their journey by car - leaving early enough to be able to park really close, and then queueing all the way home afterwards - than they would if they just walked.

But the ghastly orange Jodie-wagon (the number plate suggests the driver is probably called Jodie) is parked within 20 seconds walk of the school. Every single morning.

Just walk.

 

[Bakero]

But they did not consider it unneccessary.

It is not really for you or I to decide what is necessary or not for others.

Driving was a choice, not something that needed to be done.

Of course people are free to make the choices they see fit. However, they should perhaps consider how it affects other people and the planet too.

The problem, as I see it, is that for many the car is the default option. I was the same when back when I owned one.

 

[Stat Brother]

Driving was a choice, not something that needed to be done.

Of course people are free to make the choices they see fit. However, they should perhaps consider how it affects other people and the planet too.

The problem, as I see it, is that for many the car is the default option. I was the same when back when I owned one

You only have to look at the sentencing laws and how they're implemented, around driving offences, to see driving is pretty much our guaranteed birth right.

 

[Stat Brother]

Well, the journey itself was necessary it seems - there's little dispute on that.

It's the choice of transport method that may or may not be necessary.

I live very close to Vale School in Findon Valley. A lot of people drive their kids to school even though they live close by, ie within a mile or so. There's one particular orange Range Rover that always catches my eye, parked as close to the school as possible every morning, even though I know it comes from just the other side of the A24/A27 cemetery roundabout. I run every day, often down that way, so I know they live pretty much exactly one mile from the school. It's a 20-minute walk even if you amble.

I suspect they spend longer getting doing their journey by car - leaving early enough to be able to park really close, and then queueing all the way home afterwards - than they would if they just walked.

But the ghastly orange Jodie-wagon (the number plate suggests the driver is probably called Jodie) is parked within 20 seconds walk of the school. Every single morning.

Just walk.

I find it hard to believe single occupancy transport will reduce when refueling is as easy as plugging in a lamp.

So many people stuck in traffic unaware of they fact they are traffic.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The thing is some people really get off on all this hand wringing over car driving. Here we go this weeks top three from me - enjoy

3 If petrol is so expensive why are more people choosing to drive around in pick up trucks? Had the joy of following one into Lidl last weekend and then having to listen to her moan to him about the queues, just to buy vodka.

2 Farming Today on R4 this morning, covering a farmer driving from Lands End to John O'Groats in a Combine Harvester for Charity. I would like to wish him a big sponsored F'Off from one end of the UK and another one when he gets to the other end.

1 https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chester-news/man-who-mowed-down-girl-27061704 - a years ban is nowhere near long enough to contemplate the consequences of his actions.

 

[chickens]

You only have to look at the sentencing laws and how they're implemented, around driving offences, to see driving is pretty much our guaranteed birth right.

I think this is something that does have to change. I’d rather have a 5 offences and permanently out for minor offences, and a 2 yellow cards equals a permanent red for more major offences.

The idea that driving is a sacrosanct right should end. I do think the penalty for repeated nobbery on the roads should be exclusion from being able to use them.

 

[Audax]

I think this is something that does have to change. I’d rather have a 5 offences and permanently out for minor offences, and a 2 yellow cards equals a permanent red for more major offences.

The idea that driving is a sacrosanct right should end. I do think the penalty for repeated nobbery on the roads should be exclusion from being able to use them.

I also think the paradigm of "pass your test once in your 20's and you've got a licence for life" needs to change. I would be 100% in favour of "check you've not picked up so many bad habits you're dangerous" re-tests being triggered at certain milestones (either X years since last test or X years old).

TBH if my mother-in-law was retested tomorrow, she'd fail. And that would be a good thing.

 

[GOM]

Long distance mass transport, whether lorry or train, may end up favouring hydrogen, rather than logging around heavy batteries and allowing for prolonged charging times. This is a huge incentive for green hydrogen development. Hydrogen cars don't need to be parked on your property to charge overnight. In the short term I agree with you, but I think we will end up with a combination of solutions.

Large lorries with swappable batteries taking about 10/15 minutes, as long as filling a lorry tank with diesel, are already in use in Australia, and Tesla semis are being trialled as well.
What's the problem with a car being parked overnight on your property charging while you sleep/watch TV or whatever your favourite pastime might be. Cars are unused for over 90% of their life, might as well take advantage of that time, and have a full 'tank' every morning.

 

[beorhthelm]

Large lorries with swappable batteries taking about 10/15 minutes, as long as filling a lorry tank with diesel, are already in use in Australia, and Tesla semis are being trialled as well.
What's the problem with a car being parked overnight on your property charging while you sleep/watch TV or whatever your favourite pastime might be. Cars are unused for over 90% of their life, might as well take advantage of that time, and have a full 'tank' every morning.

one obvious issue is not everyone has a driveway to park and charge on. they may not have a space outside their house at all, and rely on public charging points. of course if we are expecting EV to coincide with restricting vehicles, this may not be a problem.

 

[GOM]

Thank you so much, we finally got there - Cobalt mining on Congo

View attachment 161927

The fact it's the third component highlighted for its environmental damage is rather telling.

Cobalt is being phased out of EV batteries, as is nickel. Possibly the most common replacement now are LFP batteries, these don't contain either cobalt or Nickel. The cobalt used in EV batteries is also recyclable and can be reused in the manufacture of new batteries later.

The same cannot be said for the cobalt used in oil refining which cannot be recycled.

Don't forget that cobalt use isn't just for EV batteries, it's also used for Superalloys, which are used to make parts for gas turbine engines, which are another major use for cobalt. Cobalt is also used to make airbags in automobiles; catalysts for the petroleum and chemical industries; cemented carbides (also called hardmetals) and diamond tools; corrosion- and wear-resistant alloys; drying agents for paints, varnishes, and inks; dyes and pigments; ground coats for porcelain enamels; high-speed steels; magnetic recording media; magnets; and steel-belted radial tires.

So there is no need to demonise EVs with cobalt usage, ICE vehicles depend on it too for components and their fuel.