[Other Sport] 2023 Tour de France

[Weststander]

I hope this leads to much jockeying over the next 4 stages chasing a GC podium third.

 

[Motogull]

Imagine how better this TDF would have been with no time trialing at all?

 

[Weststander]

Imagine how better this TDF would have been with no time trialing at all?

Slovenians will be saying that tonight.

 

[Weststander]

Watching a recording of today’s Eurosport analysis, we have the usual distraction of Orla Chennaoui forgetting the lower half of her wardrobe. FFS #angry

 

[Motogull]

Watching a recording of today’s Eurosport analysis, we have the usual distraction of Orla Chennaoui forgetting the lower half of her wardrobe. FFS #angry

She left it at mine.

 

[Hamilton]

I’m finding that quite hard to process.

Vingegaard has won one TT before, he’s never beaten Pogacar in an TT, and he’s put 2 mins 30 secs into WVA.

Unbelievable.

 

[Weststander]

I’m finding that quite hard to process.

Vingegaard has won one TT before, he’s never beaten Pogacar in an TT, and he’s put 2 mins 30 secs into WVA.

Unbelievable.

Eurosport had great slow-mo footage of Vingegaard v Pogacar taking the same corners. Vingegaard took them like a man possessed barely slowing, whilst Pogarcar took them cautiously.

 

[Hamilton]

Eurosport had great slow-mo footage of Vingegaard v Pogacar taking the same corners. Vingegaard took them like a man possessed barely slowing, whilst Pogarcar took them cautiously.

He’s never won a TT before and he put nearly 3 minutes into WVA?

I’m going to bed depressed that a great Tour is all but over, and more depressed that yet again I’m being asked to believe something that’s unbelievable.

 

[Hamilton]

As has just been pointed out to me on another forum, the WVA is just believable because Vingegaard has been riding on his wheel all week. But only just.

I will try and swallow my skepticism.

 

[Weststander]

He’s never won a TT before and he put nearly 3 minutes into WVA?

I’m going to bed depressed that a great Tour is all but over, and more depressed that yet again I’m being asked to believe something that’s unbelievable.

Like ITV and Eurosport, I’ll never be a cynic until there’s hard evidence. To me Vingegaard is an incredible talent and some.

But I don’t blame anyone for thinking along your lines, you/I have seen decades of cycling cheats.

Pogacar fanboys in the UK might be particularly bitter, their hero 1% inferior, their dreams of Pogacar dominance up in the air. Imho it’s completely unfair to think of Pogacar as saintly over Vingegaard, we know nothing.

Perhaps we’re watching a clean era?

You have to remember that cycling Anglophobes think that Wiggins, Froome and Thomas are cheats. Whilst their French and Italian heroes were clean.

 

[Bozza]

Eurosport had great slow-mo footage of Vingegaard v Pogacar taking the same corners. Vingegaard took them like a man possessed barely slowing, whilst Pogarcar took them cautiously.

Whilst that's true on the downhill stretches, he was only c30 seconds up on Pogacar through that - he put a whole lot more time into him on the climb which wasn't kamikaze cornering.

 

[Weststander]

Whilst that's true on the downhill stretches, he was only c30 seconds up on Pogacar through that - he put a whole lot more time into him on the climb which wasn't kamikaze cornering.

He’s an incredible climber at a steady pace, this suited him.

Whilst Pogacar has a greater burst of pace and can use that combined with mind games, in a GC group on an ascent.

Imho Vingegaard’s descending is exemplary too. He appears to have a low centre of gravity, is stable and confident.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I’m finding that quite hard to process.

Vingegaard has won one TT before, he’s never beaten Pogacar in an TT, and he’s put 2 mins 30 secs into WVA.

Unbelievable.

He literally beat Pogacar in the previous Tour de France TT they raced, stage 20 in 2022. I don't know that much about the sport, but gather this was a TT with a big steep hill, hence favored the likes of him. No doubt a seriously impressive performance, of course.

 

[Normal Rob]

Well it's buggered up my weekends viewing. Hope the cricket's good (again)

 

[Hamilton]

He literally beat Pogacar in the previous Tour de France TT they raced, stage 20 in 2022. I don't know that much about the sport, but gather this was a TT with a big steep hill, hence favored the likes of him. No doubt a seriously impressive performance, of course.

No, this is the first grand tour ITT he has ever won. Prior to this he has won one ITT at a regional tour. And at the Dauphne this year he was second to Mikkel Bjerg who he finished 12 seconds behind on a 30km ITT. Yesterday he was six and a half minutes faster than Bjerg.

Vingegaard’s second place on stage 20 last year was just 8 seconds ahead of Pogacar. The winner on that stage? WVA.

And for reference, check the profiles of the courses over 22, 31 and 44k respectively. Similar.

I’m not saying it’s impossible for Vingegaard to beat his opponents, but the sudden and dramatic improvement in power output leaves the door open for questions.

I’m no Pogacar fan boy, and the field this year is poor, but this was a pretty evenly matched race until yesterday.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No, this is the first grand tour ITT he has ever won. Prior to this he has won one ITT at a regional tour. And at the Dauphne this year he was second to Mikkel Bjerg who he finished 12 seconds behind on a 30km ITT. Yesterday he was six and a half minutes faster than Bjerg.

Vingegaard’s second place on stage 20 last year was just 8 seconds ahead of Pogacar. The winner on that stage? WVA.

And for reference, check the profiles of the courses over 22, 31 and 44k respectively. Similar.

I’m not saying it’s impossible for Vingegaard to beat his opponents, but the sudden and dramatic improvement in power output leaves the door open for questions.

I’m no Pogacar fan boy, and the field this year is poor, but this was a pretty evenly matched race until yesterday.

I guess if the race leader of the Tour de France could dope up to win a stage, in the shadow of all the attention on this issue and on this race, and after everything that's gone before, well if he could do it and could get away with it, then really the sport is totally lost and any of them could do the same.

I like to think thats more unlikely than the alternative that he had a really good day in the saddle.

 

[Fignon's Ponytail]

I usually dont bother watching TT's as I find them so dull - but yesterdays short burst against the clock was mental.

JV....how?!?!

 

[1066familyman]

No, this is the first grand tour ITT he has ever won. Prior to this he has won one ITT at a regional tour. And at the Dauphne this year he was second to Mikkel Bjerg who he finished 12 seconds behind on a 30km ITT. Yesterday he was six and a half minutes faster than Bjerg.

Vingegaard’s second place on stage 20 last year was just 8 seconds ahead of Pogacar. The winner on that stage? WVA.

And for reference, check the profiles of the courses over 22, 31 and 44k respectively. Similar.

I’m not saying it’s impossible for Vingegaard to beat his opponents, but the sudden and dramatic improvement in power output leaves the door open for questions.

I’m no Pogacar fan boy, and the field this year is poor, but this was a pretty evenly matched race until yesterday.

Apples and Oranges.

That Dauphiné win by Berg, who btw was outstanding in the Spring Classics this season, was likely a targeted stage by him in the middle of a week long race when all he had was light dom duties for Adam Yates.

This ITT comes in week three of a hellish Grand Tour in which he's had serious dom duties for Pogacar, AND his work is not finished yet. Berg will have been under instructions to have a rest day yesterday, just like lots of other riders.

 

[1066familyman]

Have to say, I too was shocked by the sheer amount of time Vingegaard put into Pogacar, and everyone else yesterday for that matter. I thought when he shot down the ramp like a rat up a drainpipe that he might misjudge his efforts, go too hard too soon, and blow up a bit on the final climb. I also thought that Pogacar would claw back big chunks of time on that final climb with his pacing and bike change.

Oh well, it does feel like epic race so far now pretty much over, but Pogacar is a born winner. I could see him risking everything and going full Nibali/Contador this week. I don't think he'll succeed though, and I also doubt the team would risk an Adam Yates podium spot now to assist in any such kamikaze efforts either.

 

[pb21]

I think yesterday's TT performance from Vingegaard was sufficiently dominant and unexpected to warrant a raised eyebrow.

It's not surprising he won, and it wouldn't have been that surprising if he took ~30-seconds, but to take 100-seconds over Pogačar (and 170s over van Aert) in a 22 km TT is unexpected.

I guess there is some context to it though (Pogačar tired/undertrained, rest of field tired working for others, course suited Vingegaard) and I'm not raising anymore eyebrows, not necessarily relaxing them though.

Either way, I think the most dominant performance I have seen at the TdF in 20+ years of watching (well excluding Landis in 2006...).