2017 Manchester arena attack

[hans kraay fan club]

Bulldoze all mosques is exactly what I said. If they want to preach Islam, hire out a hall and then you have to abide by the laws of hate speech.

The Happy clappy Christians who disagreed with the churches teachings were forced to do exactly this on a Sunday.

We will just have to disagree because I can't be bothered to argue anymore.

We certainly do disagree - your 'plan' would prompt the endgame these people desire. Footage of mosques being razed to the ground would be manna from heaven to the ISIS cause. I literally can't imagine anything we could do that would be more counter-productive in the ongoing effort to reduce violent attacks.

And all for what? So the hate preachers can continue to do what they do, still behind closed doors, but in a different shaped building, with the added bonus of the new ammunition you've just afforded them?

Terrific

 

[pigbite]

It's a book. You don't judge its overall message by judging it 70% of the way through, that's just silly.

As for Revelation, it was an apocalyptic writing on the terror of Nero's reign, so of course there is violence in it. It was a warning about persecution, not an encouragement to be violent.

I am absolutely not judging it on the OT. I am just pointing that Christians accept the whole of the Bible canon as part of their holy book. The God of the OT is the same God that is represented by Jesus in the NT. If you check the conversation I have been having on in the subject you will see I just pointed out the violent nature of the God of the OT (still the same one that beget Jesus of course) and since the Bible speaks of Jesus having been with God since the start in heaven then he must have been aware of, even complicit in, in all this violence.

In response I was told these works were all down to the God of Islam. There might be a common root in Abraham to Judaism, Islam and Christianty but when the Bible canon was being decided the Christians decided to keep it all in since it's all the same God.

Trying to pass the OT as nothing to do with Christians is disingenuous.

As for Revelation I think John must have been high on something but it's absolutely a message of judgement for the majority.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Reminder!

Also, can we please try our best to keep this thread civil, a place for positive thoughts to those who have lost their lives and not have it descend into yet another left v right shouting match?

 

[looney]

We certainly do disagree - your 'plan' would prompt the endgame these people desire. Footage of mosques being razed to the ground would be manna from heaven to the ISIS cause. I literally can't imagine anything we could do that would be more counter-productive in the ongoing effort to reduce violent attacks.

And all for what? So the hate preachers can continue to do what they do, still behind closed doors, but in a different shaped building, with the added bonus of the new ammunition you've just afforded them?

Terrific

The delusion you and others are under is that the end game wont play out, it will, us or them. Unless you can explain how demographics will change, ie low birthrates and a top number of muslim immigrants into the UK, a cap if you like, then it really is us or them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In the meantime, whilst you are point scoring and name calling, one woman led 50 children to safety in the Holiday Inn, so they could be reunited with their parents, a homeless man, Steven Jones, hugged a woman who was dying, taxi drivers, and other drivers were giving people free lifts, and locals were offering beds, etc and tea/coffee to the emergency services.

Despite the shock and horror in my family, we look for the good in people, as you'll always find it, if you look hard enough.

 

[El Presidente]

On behalf of the people of Manchester, thanks NSC for your care and compassion for the victims...

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I'm so glad this thread has taken it's normal route. Terrific work by those involved.

RIP and thoughts with those affected. Horrendous.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So rather than any concept of education or enlightenment - in the manner that Christian theology has progressed over the last century, your solution is what? Muslim concentration camps? deportations? (to where?) Forced sterilization of British-born muslim women? Just shoot them all, and hope nobody fights back?

Stop it. Don't feed the troll.

 

[soistes]

I see it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate to the norm.

That's true, but if you go on pretty much any football fans' forum today, you'll find a long thread on this topic that has started as news, moved onto condolences, and ended up in this kind of futile politico-theological debate.

To take two examples not entirely at random:
http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=270627&page=27
https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=166728&page=13

The conclusion I draw is that the forums (fora?) provide a useful safe space for letting off steam on a highly emotive topic that's got lots of people understandably worked up.
And some of the posts on this and other forums are actually quite interesting and make good points.

 

[martin tyler]

Only first stumbled onto this thread since the news. Very disappointing that it appears to have become a religious debate, just as the first set of victims have been named.

So terrible, so tragic. Rest In Peace.

Eight-year-old Saffie Roussos and Georgina Callander, 18

Have to agree this has gone well off from what this thread should be about. Political, religious point scoring should be left somewhere else today not on here. Currently some poor families are being told they won't see certain members of their family again. 2 families have already had to announce young daughters not coming home. People should show respect.
RIP to all killed.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Stop it. Don't feed the troll.

Wise words

 

[spring hall convert]

Yeah, I got that bit. But why?

(1) He despises Islam because (2) he's decided to believe it to be a hate-filled religion. So his answer is he wishes to get rid of the places where he is convinced there's hate-filled preaching. In other words, 'every mosque'.

And shut down the internet.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Not sure how,as home sec she binned 30k police officers and now the wretched old hag wants to bring back fox hunting to appease the hoorays.
Tally ho.

very political!

Also, can we please try our best to keep this thread civil, a place for positive thoughts to those who have lost their lives and not have it descend into yet another left v right shouting match?

 

[Chris001]

Footage of mosques being razed to the ground would be manna from heaven to the ISIS cause. I literally can't imagine anything we could do that would be more counter-productive in the ongoing effort to reduce violent attacks.

No need. Merely publish a cartoon of Mohammed to see how intolerant this lot are.

 

[pearl]

Only first stumbled onto this thread since the news. Very disappointing that it appears to have become a religious debate, just as the first set of victims have been named.

So terrible, so tragic. Rest In Peace.

Eight-year-old Saffie Roussos and Georgina Callander, 18

An 8 year old .... that is heartbreaking

 

[pigbite]

Have to agree this has gone well off from what this thread should be about. Political, religious point scoring should be left somewhere else today not on here. Currently some poor families are being told they won't see certain members of their family again. 2 families have already had to announce young daughters not coming home. People should show respect.
RIP to all killed.

Thanks for the reminder and apologies for the contribution my debating with one or two posters has made to this. As someone who has experienced the negative effects of organised religion in my own life I just find the harm that religious ideology causes utterly abhorrent and I've let that get the better of me.

They just played this on 6 Music and it's a far more poignant statement than any of my postulating...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOsSZWnKRVA

 

[Leekbrookgull]

No frigging way-that's exactly what they want.

Carry on as normal-don't let these backward, superstitious ****s get the upper hand.

By that i mean far better security screening of those people that actually in the area and weeding out those that have no direct need to be there ? Yes the device was set-off in the foyer but we have all attended events where surely you have questioned the level of security ? The Etihad in 2002 for the Commonwealth Games airport standard security checks,2016 Springsteen at The Eithad basically show your ticket and in. I fully endorse your NO CHANGE ATTITUDE yet we have to do more.

 

[GT49er]

Yeah, I got that bit. But why?

(1) He despises Islam because (2) he's decided to believe it to be a hate-filled religion. So his answer is he wishes to get rid of the places where he is convinced there's hate-filled preaching. In other words, 'every mosque'.

(1) He despises Islam because - yes, no doubt about that;
(2) he's decided to believe it to be a hate-filled religion - no argument about that either.
So his answer is he wishes to get rid of the places where he is convinced there's hate-filled preaching - getting rid of all mosques would get rid of some of the places where hate-filled teaching takes place. There would still be other places where it happens, unfortunately - but there would be no more mosques where hate-filled preaching went unchecked. There are some mosques, unfortunately, where this foul besmirching of a religion takes place - what we don't know is how many.

To summarise, he wants all mosques pulled down, whether or not they are used for hate-preaching; that is not saying that hate-preaching takes place in all of them.

 

[Lush]

What a complete and utter load of shite "Soldier" like feck he was.

Crusaders aged 7 at a pop concert...

If you honestly think you have struck a blow and gone into battle against 7 year old children your not fit to walk this earth.

I despair at some peoples reasoning and how they can logically square anything like this away in their heads be it here Syria, France or anywhere....

Ditto the man with a gun in Tunisia. Killing grannies on holiday on sunloungers. Cowards.

 

[East Preston Gull]

Thanks for the reminder and apologies for the contribution my debating with one or two posters has made to this. As someone who has experienced the negative effects of organised religion in my own life I just find the harm that religious ideology causes utterly abhorrent and I've let that get the better of me.

They just played this on 6 Music and it's a far more poignant statement than any of my postulating...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOsSZWnKRVA

Same. Things have got to me today and although my views won't change, this maybe was not the day to be spouting off.
Maybe some of you think that my views should never be stated at all, but that too is for another time.



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