[Politics] Brexit

beorhthelm said:

think its Sturgeon trying to be funny: if they want the "same deal" as NI it would require them to be part of Ireland. i dont recall that on their referendum, perhaps the next one will include a debate about being annexed to RoI, which would solve the tricky problem of having to reapply to join the EU.

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Thunder Bolt said:

You haven't looked at one of them have you? Yet, you still want to disregard it.

Yes, light bulbs have gone up but they last longer and are environmentally better.

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pastafarian said:

Given your record on spreading untrue tweets i doubt there is one single person that is surprised you enthusiastically embrace the FBPE echo chamber nonsense.
Not sure how you can be proud being a fake news enabler, but it takes all sorts nowadays i suppose.
I love how they have collectively morphed into believing there is a conspiracy against their movement being led by the BBC, who are now apparently now just a pro brexit
mouthpiece of Theresa May. They were always heading for meltdown though.

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Westdene Seagull said:

Yes, I clicked through on about half a dozen but every statement on there is from the view of the EU. It's an EU published page.

Hmmm, I have all three types of bulb and I'd certainly suggest that halogen ( which the EU forced us to adopt ) doesn't last twice as long as an incandesent bulb yet costs over twice the price. Now we have LED forced on us which cost over twice the price of a halogen - I object to paying a fiver for a single bulb.

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Westdene Seagull said:

Yes, I clicked through on about half a dozen but every statement on there is from the view of the EU. It's an EU published page.

Hmmm, I have all three types of bulb and I'd certainly suggest that halogen ( which the EU forced us to adopt ) doesn't last twice as long as an incandesent bulb yet costs over twice the price. Now we have LED forced on us which cost over twice the price of a halogen - I object to paying a fiver for a single bulb.

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beorhthelm said:

i've accepted this argument, however recently been highlighted we import non-EU good on WTO basis. So what systems are currently used and why couldnt they be used for future?

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WATFORD zero said:

Because, as a member of the EU, we use the WTO schedules and quotas as agreed by the EU. These are not available to us after we leave, we have to negotiate our own and then, when the negotiations are complete, we will need to build systems to support whatever we negotiate.

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beorhthelm said:

you've sidestepped the question, was not about the quotas, about the systems in place.

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Thunder Bolt said:

Maybe it's your electrics because I haven't bought a lamp for years. They last and last.

Ps bulbs go in the garden.

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Westdene Seagull said:

If it were my electrics then all my bulbs would blow early.

PS - no, a lamp is what a light bulb goes in. Google it - you won't find many light bulbs by searching for lamps.

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Thunder Bolt said:

Smear me as much as you like pasta, it is like water off a duck's back.

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pastafarian said:

I know it is to you, you FBPE types simply dont care how much rubbish you repeat and spread even when you have been informed of the truth.
Its good to see your movement disappearing up its own backside as it slips into conspiracy theory territory

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ManOfSussex said:

As well as having a face like thunder on entering No.10 and leaving The HoC chamber before PMQ's earlier, Penny Mordaunt's odds have dropped to 13/5 from 3/1 on being the next cabinet minister out the door.

Esther McVey AWOL from PMQ's too. (Though she could just have been busy sanctioning benefit claimants.)

[tweet]1062709478913699840[/tweet]

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nicko31 said:

Amazed Ester lasted this long after misleading parliament over tax credits, incredibly arrogant politician

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WATFORD zero said:

Whenever I start to feel any sympathy for her I remember two things

She must have known that the choice was softest of soft brexits or 'no deal' from day one (enough other people knew)
She wanted the poison chalice and, in the end, her ambition was greater than her common sense

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Thunder Bolt said:

Follow Back Pro Europe is simply a way to share news. You and your conspiracy theories.

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Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:

But there won't though. She is saying this is the best possible deal we could get. And that is probably true.

We will just leave with no deal, which is what should have happened as soon as they EU made it clear we was not going to be able to cut all ties with them. Just a shame we didn't get on with it 18 months ago.

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Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:

And you are the perfect example of what I said.

All you do is attack anyone with a different view to your own. You love to make out how everyone else is wrong, but never actually say anything constructive. We get it, you don't want to leave the EU.

But apart from calling everyone who does thick and clueless, you add nothing. When other challenge you on a pointless point you make, you ignore it or disappear for a few days.

You asked the question of how long it would take to negotiate with the WTO members who have already objected to our schedule and quota submissions for our 'no deal' .

I said I have no idea, enlighten us. And you you can come back with is a thumbsup, well done. Makes you look like you know what you are talking about.

As someone who runs a very successful, very well paid business, I negotiate a lot. If I ever offered someone a deal that they didn't have objections to, I would be failing in my business. Of course WTO object to our initial submissions. That's why we negotiate. I would be highly concerned if they didn't object to our opening offer.

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WATFORD zero said:

I have explained this numerous times on this thread, but once more

In order to trade under the WTO rules, we have to submit schedules and quotas to the WTO to create the basis of our trading position.

At the end of July we submitted a schedule and quotas that was based on our schedule and quotas as a member of the EU, one of the largest trading blocs in the world.

The rest of the WTO have 3 months to raise any objections to these. (For Instance, if they think we are asking for something which they would agree with one of the largest trading blocs, but not with a single country who are the only country in the world trading solely on WTO rules).

So far USA, China, New Zealand, Brazil are reportedly amongst 20 WTO members who have objected. (Don't forget there are also Russia, India and the EU in there).

We then have to start negotiating with any countries or trading blocs that object. You can look up the history of timescales for WTO negotiations, but they aren't four and a half months.

Before retirement, I also ran a number of very successful businesses and would conduct large numbers of negotiations. I would however find out all I could about who I was negotiating with before the negotiations started. I applied the same logic to my referendum vote.

I've even found a link for you to read up

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-wto-liam-fox-no-deal-international-trade-a8603811.html

*edit* And, you'll notice, I manage to post on this tread without using insults

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WATFORD zero said:

[MENTION=27463]Tubby-McFat-Fuc[/MENTION]

Reading my post back, i'm sorry if it sounds patronising. It's just that I have been explaining the basics of 'no deal' to 'no deal' supporters constantly and it does get frustrating, even if I wasn't a grumpy old sod. Here's just a few examples

Here to Westdene Seagull
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8499772&viewfull=1#post8499772

Here to melias shoes
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8635277&highlight=#post8635277

Here to BigGully
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...f-March-2019&p=8575131&viewfull=1#post8575131

Here to Two Profs
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8490467&viewfull=1#post8490467

I think the problem is that people are thinking that 'no deal' is a simple solution to the clusterf*** we now find ourselves in. If anything, it is far more complex, introducing more players to the negotiations (some more powerful than the EU) and requiring huge amounts of infrastructure. Even if we ignore all the WTO negotiations we still have

The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules (once agreed)
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

It certainly isn't going to happen in four and a half months and, from my experience of implementing projects with government departments I would guess in the region of 5-10 years (outside of the WTO negotiations).

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pastafarian said:

Fairly well agreed now that an EU army is pretty much inevitable given the foundations of The Defence Union have been formed with The Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) pact, even though us Denmark and Malta opted out..........its just a matter of when.
What did Juncker call it, the sleeping beauty of Lisbon? ?..........frightening.

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BrickTamland said:

Think the most worrying this about this while process, regardless of which side of the fence you stand, is how divisive the whole discourse has been, from top level politics to internet message boards and everything in between. If things go badly, and at least in the short term that seems likely with such inept leadership, i really worry what the reaction will be.

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pastafarian said:

Is your crystal ball broken again? Only recently you said there were three choices, now you seem to have lost one and down to two.
Plus remainers previously have said that amongst other things a soft brexit would be remaining members of the single market and keeping EU freedom of movement after the final separation when the transition ends
What makes you think these two things will stay in place post transition if you think its the softest of soft brexits. If these things are ending it must by some remainer definitions be a hard brexit.
Fully aware remainers have continually moved the goal posts of definition as they were forced to accept realities.

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WATFORD zero said:

I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

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WATFORD zero said:

I don't think I have. Maybe I haven't explained clearly.

The current systems have been built to process the Non-EU volumes on the basis of the EU's WTO agreement.

Both those disappear and have to be re-negotiated by Britain as an individual member of the WTO. If it's not the same agreement or volumes, I would suggest that the current systems would not be suitable for a new set of rules and hugely increased volumes.

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