Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,099


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
think its Sturgeon trying to be funny: if they want the "same deal" as NI it would require them to be part of Ireland. i dont recall that on their referendum, perhaps the next one will include a debate about being annexed to RoI, which would solve the tricky problem of having to reapply to join the EU.

Oh dear. You are missing the point entirely.
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,521
The arse end of Hangleton
You haven't looked at one of them have you? Yet, you still want to disregard it.

Yes, light bulbs have gone up but they last longer and are environmentally better.

Yes, I clicked through on about half a dozen but every statement on there is from the view of the EU. It's an EU published page.

Hmmm, I have all three types of bulb and I'd certainly suggest that halogen ( which the EU forced us to adopt ) doesn't last twice as long as an incandesent bulb yet costs over twice the price. Now we have LED forced on us which cost over twice the price of a halogen - I object to paying a fiver for a single bulb.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Given your record on spreading untrue tweets i doubt there is one single person that is surprised you enthusiastically embrace the FBPE echo chamber nonsense.
Not sure how you can be proud being a fake news enabler, but it takes all sorts nowadays i suppose.
I love how they have collectively morphed into believing there is a conspiracy against their movement being led by the BBC, who are now apparently now just a pro brexit
mouthpiece of Theresa May. They were always heading for meltdown though.

Smear me as much as you like pasta, it is like water off a duck's back.
 


BrickTamland

Well-known member
Mar 2, 2010
2,229
Brighton
Yes, I clicked through on about half a dozen but every statement on there is from the view of the EU. It's an EU published page.

Hmmm, I have all three types of bulb and I'd certainly suggest that halogen ( which the EU forced us to adopt ) doesn't last twice as long as an incandesent bulb yet costs over twice the price. Now we have LED forced on us which cost over twice the price of a halogen - I object to paying a fiver for a single bulb.

Seems like a good reason to vote leave. Never thought about bulbs before
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Yes, I clicked through on about half a dozen but every statement on there is from the view of the EU. It's an EU published page.

Hmmm, I have all three types of bulb and I'd certainly suggest that halogen ( which the EU forced us to adopt ) doesn't last twice as long as an incandesent bulb yet costs over twice the price. Now we have LED forced on us which cost over twice the price of a halogen - I object to paying a fiver for a single bulb.

Maybe it's your electrics because I haven't bought a lamp for years. They last and last.

Ps bulbs go in the garden.
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,718
i've accepted this argument, however recently been highlighted we import non-EU good on WTO basis. So what systems are currently used and why couldnt they be used for future?

Because, as a member of the EU, we use the WTO schedules and quotas as agreed by the EU. These are not available to us after we leave, we have to negotiate our own and then, when the negotiations are complete, we will need to build systems to support whatever we negotiate.

you've sidestepped the question, was not about the quotas, about the systems in place.

I don't think I have. Maybe I haven't explained clearly.

The current systems have been built to process the Non-EU volumes on the basis of the EU's WTO agreement.

Both those disappear and have to be re-negotiated by Britain as an individual member of the WTO. If it's not the same agreement or volumes, I would suggest that the current systems would not be suitable for a new set of rules and hugely increased volumes.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,521
The arse end of Hangleton
Maybe it's your electrics because I haven't bought a lamp for years. They last and last.

Ps bulbs go in the garden.

If it were my electrics then all my bulbs would blow early.

PS - no, a lamp is what a light bulb goes in. Google it - you won't find many light bulbs by searching for lamps.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
If it were my electrics then all my bulbs would blow early.

PS - no, a lamp is what a light bulb goes in. Google it - you won't find many light bulbs by searching for lamps.

My Dad was a sparky, and told me lamps were lamps, not ornamental holders.
 




pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Smear me as much as you like pasta, it is like water off a duck's back.

I know it is to you, you FBPE types simply dont care how much rubbish you repeat and spread even when you have been informed of the truth.
Its good to see your movement disappearing up its own backside as it slips into conspiracy theory territory
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
I know it is to you, you FBPE types simply dont care how much rubbish you repeat and spread even when you have been informed of the truth.
Its good to see your movement disappearing up its own backside as it slips into conspiracy theory territory

Follow Back Pro Europe is simply a way to share news. You and your conspiracy theories. :lolol: :lolol:
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,544
Gods country fortnightly
As well as having a face like thunder on entering No.10 and leaving The HoC chamber before PMQ's earlier, Penny Mordaunt's odds have dropped to 13/5 from 3/1 on being the next cabinet minister out the door.

Esther McVey AWOL from PMQ's too. (Though she could just have been busy sanctioning benefit claimants.)

[tweet]1062709478913699840[/tweet]

Amazed Ester lasted this long after misleading parliament over tax credits, incredibly arrogant politician
 






pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Whenever I start to feel any sympathy for her I remember two things

She must have known that the choice was softest of soft brexits or 'no deal' from day one (enough other people knew)
She wanted the poison chalice and, in the end, her ambition was greater than her common sense

Is your crystal ball broken again? Only recently you said there were three choices, now you seem to have lost one and down to two.
Plus remainers previously have said that amongst other things a soft brexit would be remaining members of the single market and keeping EU freedom of movement after the final separation when the transition ends
What makes you think these two things will stay in place post transition if you think its the softest of soft brexits. If these things are ending it must by some remainer definitions be a hard brexit.
Fully aware remainers have continually moved the goal posts of definition as they were forced to accept realities.
 






WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,718
But there won't though. She is saying this is the best possible deal we could get. And that is probably true.

We will just leave with no deal, which is what should have happened as soon as they EU made it clear we was not going to be able to cut all ties with them. Just a shame we didn't get on with it 18 months ago.

And you are the perfect example of what I said.

All you do is attack anyone with a different view to your own. You love to make out how everyone else is wrong, but never actually say anything constructive. We get it, you don't want to leave the EU.

But apart from calling everyone who does thick and clueless, you add nothing. When other challenge you on a pointless point you make, you ignore it or disappear for a few days.

You asked the question of how long it would take to negotiate with the WTO members who have already objected to our schedule and quota submissions for our 'no deal' .

I said I have no idea, enlighten us. And you you can come back with is a thumbsup, well done. Makes you look like you know what you are talking about.

As someone who runs a very successful, very well paid business, I negotiate a lot. If I ever offered someone a deal that they didn't have objections to, I would be failing in my business. Of course WTO object to our initial submissions. That's why we negotiate. I would be highly concerned if they didn't object to our opening offer.

I have explained this numerous times on this thread, but once more

In order to trade under the WTO rules, we have to submit schedules and quotas to the WTO to create the basis of our trading position.

At the end of July we submitted a schedule and quotas that was based on our schedule and quotas as a member of the EU, one of the largest trading blocs in the world.

The rest of the WTO have 3 months to raise any objections to these. (For Instance, if they think we are asking for something which they would agree with one of the largest trading blocs, but not with a single country who are the only country in the world trading solely on WTO rules).

So far USA, China, New Zealand, Brazil are reportedly amongst 20 WTO members who have objected. (Don't forget there are also Russia, India and the EU in there).

We then have to start negotiating with any countries or trading blocs that object. You can look up the history of timescales for WTO negotiations, but they aren't four and a half months.

Before retirement, I also ran a number of very successful businesses and would conduct large numbers of negotiations. I would however find out all I could about who I was negotiating with before the negotiations started. I applied the same logic to my referendum vote.

I've even found a link for you to read up

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-wto-liam-fox-no-deal-international-trade-a8603811.html

*edit* And, you'll notice, I manage to post on this tread without using insults

[MENTION=27463]Tubby-McFat-Fuc[/MENTION]

Reading my post back, i'm sorry if it sounds patronising. It's just that I have been explaining the basics of 'no deal' to 'no deal' supporters constantly and it does get frustrating, even if I wasn't a grumpy old sod. Here's just a few examples

Here to Westdene Seagull
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8499772&viewfull=1#post8499772

Here to melias shoes
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8635277&highlight=#post8635277

Here to BigGully
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...f-March-2019&p=8575131&viewfull=1#post8575131

Here to Two Profs
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8490467&viewfull=1#post8490467

I think the problem is that people are thinking that 'no deal' is a simple solution to the clusterf*** we now find ourselves in. If anything, it is far more complex, introducing more players to the negotiations (some more powerful than the EU) and requiring huge amounts of infrastructure. Even if we ignore all the WTO negotiations we still have

The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules (once agreed)
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

It certainly isn't going to happen in four and a half months and, from my experience of implementing projects with government departments I would guess in the region of 5-10 years (outside of the WTO negotiations).

I have taken the time to explain the basis of no deal, and I haven't called anyone thick or useless.

So, do you still think that we are going 'no deal' and if you do, how do you see us overcoming the issues I have highlighted above or do you think the timescales will have to shift significantly ?
 
Last edited:


JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Fairly well agreed now that an EU army is pretty much inevitable given the foundations of The Defence Union have been formed with The Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) pact, even though us Denmark and Malta opted out..........its just a matter of when.
What did Juncker call it, the sleeping beauty of Lisbon? ?..........frightening.

Indeed. The UK has been fighting the onward march to ever closer union and building an EU superstate (including an army) with little success for decades. We were only ever likely to get one chance to jump ship before it either arrived at it's destination or hit the rocks trying ... thank goodness 17.4 million people made the right choice.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,267
Think the most worrying this about this while process, regardless of which side of the fence you stand, is how divisive the whole discourse has been, from top level politics to internet message boards and everything in between. If things go badly, and at least in the short term that seems likely with such inept leadership, i really worry what the reaction will be.

This has divided the country and Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, it has divided towns and cities and families. I genuinely think it will take many years for it all to subside and be forgotten. When we needed strong, visionary leadership to unite us, we got May. There will be no " Sunny Uplands" and money "saved" from contributing to the EU will be spent on having to employ more civil servants and border/customs officials. The ordinary people, those now being told that 10 years of austerity is over will now face increasing prices and stagnating wages when we have to produce competitively priced goods in order to trade with the world.


This will rumble on for years to come.
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,718
Is your crystal ball broken again? Only recently you said there were three choices, now you seem to have lost one and down to two.
Plus remainers previously have said that amongst other things a soft brexit would be remaining members of the single market and keeping EU freedom of movement after the final separation when the transition ends
What makes you think these two things will stay in place post transition if you think its the softest of soft brexits. If these things are ending it must by some remainer definitions be a hard brexit.
Fully aware remainers have continually moved the goal posts of definition as they were forced to accept realities.

Just a second

MYSTIC-MEG_2882318b.jpg

Nope - same three options on the table that i predicted in this post from over a year ago

I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

But thanks for asking :thumbsup:
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,002
I don't think I have. Maybe I haven't explained clearly.

The current systems have been built to process the Non-EU volumes on the basis of the EU's WTO agreement.

Both those disappear and have to be re-negotiated by Britain as an individual member of the WTO. If it's not the same agreement or volumes, I would suggest that the current systems would not be suitable for a new set of rules and hugely increased volumes.

before you were suggesting no system existed, so really we're talking scaling solutions. the volume would be ~x2. i would hope that any IT system can scale to x2, even if if efficiency was not linear.
 




Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here