Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
50,597
Gloucester
Bodian said:
Can anyone actually explain to me where there is any peace negotiations going on?

To me, a peace negotiation would be Trump getting Ukraine & Russia around the table to discuss a ceasefire / peace.

Ukraine have not refused to negotiate a peace - so why is he threatening them to do so? It can only be for his benefit.
Click to expand...
Trump's less concerned with peace than he is with Trump's glory (he hopes it could be legacy but no chance). If he forces Ukraine to surrender (which is the essence of his 'peace' plan), there will be peace in Ukraine (but no kidnapped children returned, and a vicious campaign of murder against the Ukranian leaders). But peace; like as in death - Trump will trumpet it as his deal-making genius. Then Putin will make war somewhere else. But Trump will (might*) have left the White House covered in his own glory as a peacemaker.

*He'll probably have changed the rules to allow him a third presidency by then (a very real fear), and apart from Russia, North Korea and Iran, the USA won't have friends, but will just be another rogue state. Just a very dangerous and mentally unbalanced one.
 
Last edited:






portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
18,646
SouthSaxon said:
We’ve watched the first couple of episodes. Not sold on it yet but willing to stick with it.

Bush is happy on his ranch. Trump’s hatred of Obama especially, but basically every other president who isn’t him, might make it counter productive? Maybe. Narcissists don’t like to share the stage with equals or betters
Click to expand...
Remaining silent is far worse, unless complicit, which is what they’ll appear to be very soon. And unless Trump now has total control of their media like his idol Putin does then he doesn’t get to say who he shares the spotlight with if they choose to speak up - does he?
 


portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
18,646
OzMike said:
So, Ukraine is now being blackmailed into giving their rescourses to the US for protection.
Sounds like some kind of a mafia racket. With US troops stationed there for enforcement.
The rest of Europe should now pull out, as Trump has now 'bought' Ukraine and wont want to cut anyone in.
Click to expand...
Australia, us and European nations have / are already blackmailed by US military procurement t&c’s. Successive past governments weren’t alert to the Trojan horse, which is now every bit as destructive as a namesake virus. Everyone had the entire Biden administration to get better prepared for what we’re now imperilled by. All our governments collectively failed in this sense. And boy does the coffee smell strong ‘this’ morning!
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,278
Bodian said:
Can anyone actually explain to me where there is any peace negotiations going on?

To me, a peace negotiation would be Trump getting Ukraine & Russia around the table to discuss a ceasefire / peace.

Ukraine have not refused to negotiate a peace - so why is he threatening them to do so? It can only be for his benefit.
Click to expand...
there isn't one. there isn't even a negotiation for ceasefire. they had a meeting which outcome was some restoration of diplomatic relations between US and Russia. a few days later when asked about peace, Putin says something about talks taking months. then focus is switched to a mineral deal. it looks a lot like a distraction because Putin told Trump there wasn't a peace deal.
 






peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,761
Pure extortion.......witholding Military equipment in hope of extorting more. Rory Stewart made exactly this point on todays latest "rest is politics". As soon as Trump thinks he has something you need, he will keep extorting to get maximum he can.

Ukraine should flatly refuse to sign anything other than what was already on the table.

from: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news...congress-address-ukraine-aid-russia-war-live/

"Donald Trump is not planning to sign a minerals deal between the US and Ukraine tonight, Scott Bessent has said.

Earlier reports indicated that Mr Trump was planning to conclude the controversial “rare earths” deal this evening and announce it in his joint address to Congress just after 9pm ET.

However, Mr Bessent, the US Treasury Secretary, told Fox News there was “no signing planned”.

White House insiders said there had not been any movement on the proposal, which would grant the US half of Ukraine’s revenues from its critical minerals as payback for military support.

It was due to be signed last week but was placed on ice following an explosive row between Mr Trump and Mr Zelensky in the Oval Office on Friday.

One person familiar with talks between the US and Ukraine told CBS News that the Republican was now holding out for a “bigger, better deal”.

The Ukrainian president said earlier today that he was “ready” to sign the agreement hours after Mr Trump suspended all military aid to Kyiv, calling it a “step toward” in securing “solid security agreements” from the administration."
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,748
Wiltshire
portlock seagull said:
It seems the easiest decision in the room to make, using the frozen mafia money (let’s call it what it is). Why haven’t we? By doing so theres a fear we might set a precedent for doing this with other this than savoury states who have billions invested in Europe. Enough to more than upset our economies. Regardless, I’m all for setting precedents (!) and believe we in the UK have about 10% of the total seized with the rest spread across other European countries.

The bit about bullets was somewhat facetious, sorry. Some will get it from the picture but the general military conventional point i was making is when faced with overwhelming numbers you may run out of ‘bullets’ first and then you’re done for regardless! :)
Click to expand...
Yes, use the mafia money... it's morally a perfect precedent. And I think the UN charter says it's illegal to invade a sovereign nation, so that's ok too.

I read they're worried about a hit on the Euro 🤔, well I'm no macro economist but I'd say that if Europe pays for military aid WITHOUT using the mafia money, then that will hit us all too, through taxes or redistribution of funds (happy to be corrected).
Use the effing money now!!!
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
5,035
peterward said:
Pure extortion.......witholding Military equipment in hope of extorting more. Rory Stewart made exactly this point on todays latest "rest is politics". As soon as Trump thinks he has something you need, he will keep extorting to get maximum he can.

Ukraine should flatly refuse to sign anything other than what was already on the table.

from: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news...congress-address-ukraine-aid-russia-war-live/

"Donald Trump is not planning to sign a minerals deal between the US and Ukraine tonight, Scott Bessent has said.

Earlier reports indicated that Mr Trump was planning to conclude the controversial “rare earths” deal this evening and announce it in his joint address to Congress just after 9pm ET.

However, Mr Bessent, the US Treasury Secretary, told Fox News there was “no signing planned”.

White House insiders said there had not been any movement on the proposal, which would grant the US half of Ukraine’s revenues from its critical minerals as payback for military support.

It was due to be signed last week but was placed on ice following an explosive row between Mr Trump and Mr Zelensky in the Oval Office on Friday.

One person familiar with talks between the US and Ukraine told CBS News that the Republican was now holding out for a “bigger, better deal”.

The Ukrainian president said earlier today that he was “ready” to sign the agreement hours after Mr Trump suspended all military aid to Kyiv, calling it a “step toward” in securing “solid security agreements” from the administration."
Click to expand...
Is Rory Stewart a trusted broker on Trump, hasn’t a charity run by his missus in Afghan just been defunded by DOGE?

Philip Pilkington on X: "Here is a clip from a BBC doc showing @RoryStewartUK’s US taxpayer-funded welfare program the Turquoise Mountain Foundation in action. Note how it hires severely uneducated people from Britain’s collapsing ‘education’ system to lecture normal people about art-toilets. 🇬🇧🇦🇫 https://t.co/fzOJQiQm5N" / X

Source: X (formerly Twitter)
https://search.app/aMTh3YvBrxmwCMpz7

Let’s hope British taxpayers money isn’t also being spaffed on such nonsense.
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,748
Wiltshire
SouthSaxon said:
The worry I think is that the likes of China, Saudi etc would pull all their funds out of European banks “just in case”. I find it fanciful that Europe couldn’t offer them any reassurance.

They didn’t think to sing Men of Harlech in that battle and it got them all killed.
Click to expand...
"The worry I think is that the likes of China, Saudi etc would pull all their funds out of European banks “just in case”. I find it fanciful that Europe couldn’t offer them any reassurance"
ok, I see that could be a concern. Would show the intent of any nation that pulled out some money though... Canary in a coal mine!
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
5,035
portlock seagull said:
It seems the easiest decision in the room to make, using the frozen mafia money (let’s call it what it is). Why haven’t we? By doing so theres a fear we might set a precedent for doing this with other this than savoury states who have billions invested in Europe. Enough to more than upset our economies. Regardless, I’m all for setting precedents (!) and believe we in the UK have about 10% of the total seized with the rest spread across other European countries.

The bit about bullets was somewhat facetious, sorry. Some will get it from the picture but the general military conventional point i was making is when faced with overwhelming numbers you may run out of ‘bullets’ first and then you’re done for regardless! :)
Click to expand...
Using frozen assets and/or the interest accrued from them is not an easy option. If think if it was it would have happened, however the legal precedent is significant and could undermine (amongst other matters) the stability of the euro.

https://search.app/2tGhCSSWxdyC56sQ9

I think it will remain something the politicians talk about as a threat to Putin but in reality highly unlikely. Politicians eh……..
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
18,646
cunning fergus said:
Using frozen assets and/or the interest accrued from them is not an easy option. If think if it was it would have happened, however the legal precedent is significant and could undermine (amongst other matters) the stability of the euro.

https://search.app/2tGhCSSWxdyC56sQ9

I think it will remain something the politicians talk about as a threat to Putin but in reality highly unlikely. Politicians eh……..
Click to expand...
I think you’re right.
 




peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,761
cunning fergus said:
Is Rory Stewart a trusted broker on Trump, hasn’t a charity run by his missus in Afghan just been defunded by DOGE?

Philip Pilkington on X: "Here is a clip from a BBC doc showing @RoryStewartUK’s US taxpayer-funded welfare program the Turquoise Mountain Foundation in action. Note how it hires severely uneducated people from Britain’s collapsing ‘education’ system to lecture normal people about art-toilets. 🇬🇧🇦🇫 https://t.co/fzOJQiQm5N" / X

Source: X (formerly Twitter)
https://search.app/aMTh3YvBrxmwCMpz7

Let’s hope British taxpayers money isn’t also being spaffed on such nonsense.
Click to expand...

FFlomZTVQAI5Lvb.jpg

Typical Trump propagandist, try and deflect, obfuscate and deceive.

What have his wifes charities got to do with Rory Stewarts political opinion, on what Trump would likely do, on his podcast?

When then, other media publications, cite what Trump is doing and why not yet signing deal (trying to further extort Ukraine for more, as i posted), the very thing Stewart predicted. Is he right or wrong?

Lets assume for 1 minute theres any credibility in the diversionary non answer you replied with.

Does his wife's charity HR choices make Rorys prediction wrong or invalid in some warped MAGA apologist way, or does Trump doing the very thing Rory said he would, make his prediction right?
 










Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,474
I guess the problem with appropriating the Russian money is that we are a country of laws.

Say we (or we as a collection of countries) appropriated the money, gave it to Ukraine to spend, we could be held liable to pay the money back to Russia if a relevant court decided that we must.

Imagine being the politician who had to explain that we had to give £300bn of taxpayers money to Russia.

I think there is strong precedent for the UK government to successfully defend such a case. But you're never 100% certain to win a legal action and we can't afford to lose, so realistically we'd have to settle, still at gargantuan cost.
 




SouthSaxon

SouthSaxon

Stand or fall
NSC Patron
Jan 25, 2025
365
Nobby Cybergoat said:
I guess the problem with appropriating the Russian money is that we are a country of laws.

Say we (or we as a collection of countries) appropriated the money, gave it to Ukraine to spend, we could be held liable to pay the money back to Russia if a relevant court decided that we must.

Imagine being the politician who had to explain that we had to give £300bn of taxpayers money to Russia.

I think there is strong precedent for the UK government to successfully defend such a case. But you're never 100% certain to win a legal action and we can't afford to lose, so realistically we'd have to settle, still at gargantuan cost.
Click to expand...
It isn’t straightforward for sure, as much as some people like to say “just take it”.

However, Putin has been playing dirty for years and has a big head start thanks to Europe’s complacency. A solution needs to be found.
 


rogersix

rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
8,293
GT49er said:
Trump's less concerned with peace than he is with Trump's glory (he hopes it could be legacy but no chance). If he forces Ukraine to surrender (which is the essence of his 'peace' plan), there will be peace in Ukraine (but no kidnapped children returned, and a vicious campaign of murder against the Ukranian leaders). But peace; like as in death - Trump will trumpet it as his deal-making genius. Then Putin will make war somewhere else. But Trump will (might*) have left the White House covered in his own glory as a peacemaker.

*He'll probably have changed the rules to allow him a third presidency by then (a very real fear), and apart from Russia, North Korea and Iran, the USA won't have friends, but will just be another rogue state. Just a very dangerous and mentally unbalanced one.
Click to expand...
And incredibly well armed
 


You must log in or register to reply here.
Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports

Share this page


Top
Link Here