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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



armchairclubber

armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,771
Bexhill
cunning fergus said:
It’s not 1939, the people that lived here then are dead, we are evidently not the country today we were then.

In 1939 the adult population was overwhelmingly children from parents that lived and likely served in WW1. That conflict was a horror show casualty wise and it is remarkable the the children of the WW1 generation was willing to go through the experience of their parents.

Todays likely war serving generation are the great great grandchildren of the WW2 generation and let’s be honest they aren’t cut from the same cloth.

Life is different today, these children travel, have luxuries and lives unthinkable a mere 70 years ago. If Putin is a maniacal as Hitler was in 1939 we will need to find another way to stop him that think we can put 3m strong army together with the current 18-27yr old cohort……….imo obvs.
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You appear to be suffering from a bout of realism on this issue.

Trump seems to be encouraging Brisih troops (as well as others) into Ukraine longterm so that he (or USA & Musk) can benefit from the minerals.

It will be interesting to hear what our Government agrees to.
 




Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
cunning fergus said:
With reserves, the Russian Army is 3m.

Source: Reuters

It’s been engaged in a 3 year conflict with an opponent actively supported by the West, in both military hardware and money.

The Russian Army during that period has remained unified and probably more important taken hold of the parts of eastern Ukraine Putin set out to grab.

None of those statements is Russian propaganda, they are irrefutable truths.
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The irrefutable truth is that the Russian army is a mess, so much of a mess that it has had to ship in troops and kit from North Korea.
The proof is before you, three years into an operation that started on a Thursday and should have been put to bed on the Sunday at the very latest.

The fact that Ukraine has been supported by the west also tells you that Russia is pretty much toothless when it comes to the rest of Europe. The Russian army is stuck in the 1970’s both in kit but also tactics. Piss up and brewery spring to mind.
 


Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,984
raymondo said:
Nah... I think he knows exactly what he's doing, bully in extremis, I just don't know why unless he's on a promise from Russia. I'll read the link though 😉
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Here goes! (It was a toss-up between 'Trump is getting old' and agent Krasnov).

Could Trump really have got confused between asylum and a mental asylum? See what you think.

 


Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
cunning fergus said:
It’s not 1939, the people that lived here then are dead, we are evidently not the country today we were then.

In 1939 the adult population was overwhelmingly children from parents that lived and likely served in WW1. That conflict was a horror show casualty wise and it is remarkable the the children of the WW1 generation was willing to go through the experience of their parents.

Todays likely war serving generation are the great great grandchildren of the WW2 generation and let’s be honest they aren’t cut from the same cloth.

Life is different today, these children travel, have luxuries and lives unthinkable a mere 70 years ago. If Putin is a maniacal as Hitler was in 1939 we will need to find another way to stop him that think we can put 3m strong army together with the current 18-27yr old cohort……….imo obvs.
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Putin is the Hitler of 1945 and not the Hitler of 1939. Hitler also had very experienced generals etc. Putin doesn’t and won’t as he doesn’t trust anyone of any intelligence.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
4,994
Hamilton said:
There’s little point in peddling one stat without looking into others.

This from Russia.

“Based on Russian Field polling, a solid majority of Russians oppose a potential second wave of mobilization. Meanwhile, data from both Russian Field and Levadashows a clear preference for peace talks over a continuation of the war. A Levada poll conducted in November 2023 indicated that while nominal support for the invasion of Ukraine remained high at 73 percent, the number of respondents who offered firm, unquestioned backing rather than those who “more support than oppose” the war had actually fallen from a peak of 53 percent in March 2022 to just 39 percent. This looks a lot more like conformism rather than active support for the war.”

It’s hardly a hotbed of people determined to rush to the barricades!
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Forget stats and deal with realities.

Russia has been fully engaged in a war for 3 years against an opponent sponsored by western money and military material.

It’s manpower casualties exceed the entire size of the British armed services 2 - 3 times over, and the country and military forces, like it or not, doesn’t appear to be on the brink.

Compared to the West and it’s potential to commit to a struggle of that nature do you honestly believe this country would continue to hold itself together with (say) a 1000pw casualty rate?

We know the answer, this country wouldn’t even have the capacity to fly a 1000 casualties a week back to dear old Blighty from Ukraine if it was engaged against Russia.
 




PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
20,042
Hurst Green
Eric the meek said:
Here goes! (It was a toss-up between 'Trump is getting old' and agent Krasnov).

Could Trump really have got confused between asylum and a mental asylum? See what you think.

Click to expand...

So he’s thick as mince, who knew?
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,984




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
4,994
Deportivo Seagull said:
The irrefutable truth is that the Russian army is a mess, so much of a mess that it has had to ship in troops and kit from North Korea.
The proof is before you, three years into an operation that started on a Thursday and should have been put to bed on the Sunday at the very latest.

The fact that Ukraine has been supported by the west also tells you that Russia is pretty much toothless when it comes to the rest of Europe. The Russian army is stuck in the 1970’s both in kit but also tactics. Piss up and brewery spring to mind.
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If you’re right then the Ukrainians should be rolling them back as oppose to having surrendered large parts of its territory.

That is the proof I’m merely pointing to today, which on that basis means the Russians are not as toothless or in as much of a mess as you say.

There is nothing wrong with optimism or positivity however when it comes to a full scale war with Russia we need hard headed realism.
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,619
Cumbria
marlowe said:
The US is resorting to very dirty tactics to secure the minerals deal, amounting to extortion. They have now threatened to cut Ukraine's access to Starlink if they do not sign the deal.

This threat goes way beyond the issue of the US merely wanting to be compensated for any aid they provide and would be an act of pure malice tantamount to open aggression.

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Eric the meek said:
It makes you wonder what is coming next.

Extortion is the right word. Trump seems to be losing his mind and perspective.
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Musk owns Starlink
Musk owns Tesla
Ukraine have lots of Lithium

Just shows that is simply a bullying business deal to help his mates - and almost certainly to then be helped financially by them.
 


Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
cunning fergus said:
If you’re right then the Ukrainians should be rolling them back as oppose to having surrendered large parts of its territory.

That is the proof I’m merely pointing to today, which on that basis means the Russians are not as toothless or in as much of a mess as you say.

There is nothing wrong with optimism or positivity however when it comes to a full scale war with Russia we need hard headed realism.
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Russia are the aggressors here and they have tried all out war and f***ed it up. There’s three years of evidence and a bunch of Koreans to prove it.
Ukraine are doing what any army would do in this case. Held them up, counter jabbed and basically bogged the Russia down. They’ve taken the war to Russia by taking out infrastructure and consigning the Russian navy and airforce to their bases.
 




R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,317
Wiltshire








C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
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Jan 18, 2009
4,994
Deportivo Seagull said:
I would wager that more British people have been murdered and raped by born and bred British people than the Russian state.

did you not think before you posted that?
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That’s true, absolutely true. It has always been thus and is definitely a point worthy to make alongside mine.

Of course, the reason why tax, immigration, the NHS and other political matters our leadership has to deal with are relevant to the Ukraine issue is simple, it’s political priority.

Starmer will have to convince the British public that dealing with Russia is now a such a priority, that maybe taxes rise and/or spending on the NHS is cut.

In my view, his ability to cut through with that risk message about the murderous Russian enemy is going to be undermined by other domestic issues, and for all the risk posed by Russia it will be set against the more pressing threat posed by some of the people that now live amongst us and who continue to arrive.

You may think that is British born people that pose a greater threat and that’s your perspective which I respect. I think the German elections may point to how the Germans feel about who lives with them, just as Trumps election was partly about who lives with Americans in the US.
 




happypig

happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
8,384
Eastbourne
Deportivo Seagull said:
The irrefutable truth is that the Russian army is a mess, so much of a mess that it has had to ship in troops and kit from North Korea.
The proof is before you, three years into an operation that started on a Thursday and should have been put to bed on the Sunday at the very latest.

The fact that Ukraine has been supported by the west also tells you that Russia is pretty much toothless when it comes to the rest of Europe. The Russian army is stuck in the 1970’s both in kit but also tactics. Piss up and brewery spring to mind.
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They are also inherently corrupt. I remember reading a while back about a supplies warehouse that had a load of expired rations. They were sent lorryloads of replacement rations which the bloke in charge promptly sold.
There was another story about platoon commanders taking their soldiers wages and only giving them half of it.
In short, they are bent.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
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Jan 18, 2009
4,994
Deportivo Seagull said:
Russia are the aggressors here and they have tried all out war and f***ed it up. There’s three years of evidence and a bunch of Koreans to prove it.
Ukraine are doing what any army would do in this case. Held them up, counter jabbed and basically bogged the Russia down. They’ve taken the war to Russia by taking out infrastructure and consigning the Russian navy and airforce to their bases.
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Russia occupies and has occupied c. 20% of Ukraine since the war started, and it’s not the other way round.

With the US pulling the plug on military aid, I would argue Ukraine’s prospects are worse today than at any other time in 3 years.

I know others on here, perhaps you will see if differently, as you are entitled to do.
 




R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,317
Wiltshire


chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,994
Deportivo Seagull said:
it would be funny if the latest research into green hydrogen were to bear fruit. It would absolutely screw over the electric car market.
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It’s already been tried and failed. Toyota went all in on it, sold about 12 of their Mirai cars, and nobody was willing to carry the fuel.

They are now belatedly beginning to develop electric cars, but a decade after everybody else.
 


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