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[Misc] Electric Cars



GOM

GOM

living vicariously
Aug 8, 2005
3,280
Leeds - but not the dirty bit
MJsGhost said:
Not really. You just have to resist the temptation to spunk it all straight away.

Assume an equal ability to invest it wisely and limit spending from it to a sustainable level and we'd be in the same position as the Norwegians. The amount of oil and gas extracted by the UK and Norway is similar.
They now spend £30-35bn a year from it while the fund still grows.
We let the private sector take a big chunk and spaffed the rest on some tax cuts and immediate spending.
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£30-£35 billion would be a drop in the ocean for spending here. In this financial year government spending is expected to be over 1,200 billion (https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/brief-guides-and-explainers/public-finances/)
Norway's total expenditure was set at 1.88 trillion NOK which equates to approx 135 billion sterling approx 11% of UK.

So yes it is easier to accumulate a wealth fund when there is less to spend it on.
 




MJsGhost

MJsGhost

Oooh Matron, I'm an
NSC Patron
Jun 26, 2009
5,145
East
GOM said:
£30-£35 billion would be a drop in the ocean for spending here. In this financial year government spending is expected to be over 1,200 billion (https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/brief-guides-and-explainers/public-finances/)
Norway's total expenditure was set at 1.88 trillion NOK which equates to approx 135 billion sterling approx 11% of UK.

So yes it is easier to accumulate a wealth fund when there is less to spend it on.
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My point isn't that it would solve all of the UK's problems. My point is that there was still an opportunity to build up a fund of the equivalent size of Norway's. The process was just as easy, it just needed the correct decision.

£30-35bn might be considered a drop in the ocean but I'd imagine that, for example, the education system in this country could be very quickly improved with the extra c. 30% of spending that would represent.

It was a political decision to hand it over to the private sector and buy short-term popularity through tax cuts and immediate spending with the money received, rather than provide 'free' money for spending in perpetuity (albeit a smaller percentage of overall spending compared to Norway).
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,924
Gods country fortnightly
Blimey, things are changing fast in Germany

 


carlzeiss

carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
6,328
Amazonia
Interesting insight from JayEmm here as to how how Chinese manufactures receive favorable reviews.
Jonny Smith takes the bait :)



 


G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,954
carlzeiss said:
Interesting insight from JayEmm here as to how how Chinese manufactures receive favorable reviews.
Jonny Smith takes the bait :)



Click to expand...

Hmm, as someone who has a pretty good understanding of that world (just the 25 years) I'd take a lot of that first video with a pinch of salt. So much of what that guy is on about is nothing new and paying 'influencers' to drive their cars and say nice things about them is pretty much what every manufacturer will do.

I know of several people who will be driving that car on Friday who WON'T be getting paid by the manufacturer (which is also usual).
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,329
Guys guys guys, listen in.

My banger of an ICE car has banged it's last bang. I need a new car.

My mrs is thinking, spend 5k on another ICE to get us through the next few years. I'm thinking we spend more, maybe £10K on a second hand EV.

Now i've never had one, but would be up for it. I've got a driveway I could install a charger. Don't usually drive further than, say, Oxford Swindon area.

So in order to talk my mrs into my plan I need a sales pitch. What EV models would you be looking at, at that pricepoint? And what should I include in the EV pitch?
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
24,423
Brighton
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Guys guys guys, listen in.

My banger of an ICE car has banged it's last bang. I need a new car.

My mrs is thinking, spend 5k on another ICE to get us through the next few years. I'm thinking we spend more, maybe £10K on a second hand EV.

Now i've never had one, but would be up for it. I've got a driveway I could install a charger. Don't usually drive further than, say, Oxford Swindon area.

So in order to talk my mrs into my plan I need a sales pitch. What EV models would you be looking at, at that pricepoint? And what should I include in the EV pitch?
Click to expand...
Two very big ticks for the EV purchase there.
 


chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,998
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Guys guys guys, listen in.

My banger of an ICE car has banged it's last bang. I need a new car.

My mrs is thinking, spend 5k on another ICE to get us through the next few years. I'm thinking we spend more, maybe £10K on a second hand EV.

Now i've never had one, but would be up for it. I've got a driveway I could install a charger. Don't usually drive further than, say, Oxford Swindon area.

So in order to talk my mrs into my plan I need a sales pitch. What EV models would you be looking at, at that pricepoint? And what should I include in the EV pitch?
Click to expand...

Hyundai Kona/Kia Niro (sister cars)
VW ID 3

Or if you’re willing to up your budget a bit MG ZS EV, or the luxury option the Jaguar I-Pace. (Both over budget)

The selling points are the cost savings (charging at home is essential for this) and being able to have the vehicle pre-heated and toasty before you set out in it. Plus there’s a pleasing nippyness to EV driving.

More recent Renault Zoe’s are available too if there’s just the two of you and you’re happy with a smaller vehicle.

There’s a few good options but I’d probably start with the options above.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,924
Gods country fortnightly
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Guys guys guys, listen in.

My banger of an ICE car has banged it's last bang. I need a new car.

My mrs is thinking, spend 5k on another ICE to get us through the next few years. I'm thinking we spend more, maybe £10K on a second hand EV.

Now i've never had one, but would be up for it. I've got a driveway I could install a charger. Don't usually drive further than, say, Oxford Swindon area.

So in order to talk my mrs into my plan I need a sales pitch. What EV models would you be looking at, at that pricepoint? And what should I include in the EV pitch?
Click to expand...
£10k ish would get you a 3 year old ID3 with 150-200 miles range

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2p a mile charging it on Octopus Intelligent Go
 


G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,954
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Guys guys guys, listen in.

My banger of an ICE car has banged it's last bang. I need a new car.

My mrs is thinking, spend 5k on another ICE to get us through the next few years. I'm thinking we spend more, maybe £10K on a second hand EV.

Now i've never had one, but would be up for it. I've got a driveway I could install a charger. Don't usually drive further than, say, Oxford Swindon area.

So in order to talk my mrs into my plan I need a sales pitch. What EV models would you be looking at, at that pricepoint? And what should I include in the EV pitch?
Click to expand...
Instead of buying second hand, it might be worth looking at new ones, finance. I'm not sure what you're requirements are, but I know that Vauxhall has made a big play of pitching EV and ICE cars at the same price point. As a result, Corsas (not a bad little car, to be fair) have been flying out of dealers and they start at just under £27k, or around £300 a month (potentially you'd save a chunk of that through cheap electricity over fuel). If you want/need something a bit bigger, then the same sort of deal is true for the Mokka.

I'm by no way a Vauxhall fan-boy though – and there are LOADS of options out there for new EVs, with many more low-cost ones to come. Dacia Spring is cheap, but basic. Some of the Chinese brands are coming though with EVs that undercut a lot of the competition. I've got an ID.3 at the moment and it's fine, but it's priced up at over £40k, which is a LOT of money for that sort of car.

My advice would be to have a look around, try some cars at the sort of size you're looking for and go from there. There's nothing wrong with most second-hand EVs (a lot of it is scaremongering and the batteries actually last very well), but it's a big step, so keep your options open.

As for general reasons to get an EV: cheaper to run (potentially); cleaner; quieter; app-compatible so you can pre-heat and pre-cool; more convenient – if you've got a charger at home and not doing mega miles, you won't need to use public facilities, just chuck it on overnight at off-peak prices and there's a bunch of new technologies (some would say too much, sometimes) if that's your bag.
 


Badger

Badger

NOT the Honey Badger
NSC Patron
May 8, 2007
13,328
Toronto
There are many good electric cars.

Then there are things like this, which I just walked past...

PXL_20250129_175113493.jpg
 




G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,954
Badger said:
There are many good electric cars.

Then there are things like this, which I just walked past...

View attachment 195835
Click to expand...
Obviously his fan boys and girls ("don't bring politics into cars") aren't affected, but I've heard Elon has put a LOT of people off him and his cars with his recent antics. And that's before you even start to look at that abomination of a vehicle!
 
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Badger

Badger

NOT the Honey Badger
NSC Patron
May 8, 2007
13,328
Toronto
Greg Bobkin said:
Obvioulsy his fan boys and girls ("don't bring politics into cars") aren't affected, but I've heard Elon has put a LOT of people off him and his cars with his recent antics. And that's before you even start to look at that abomination of a vehicle!
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Indeed. There was a review of the new Tesla Model Y on the Everything Electric YouTube channel the other day. It was recorded before "the incident" and they mentioned this in the description. The comments were almost universally anti-Tesla and there were even a few people who said they've sold their Tesla and will never be buying another one.
 


A

alanfp

Active member
Feb 23, 2024
211
Badger said:
there were even a few people who said they've sold their Tesla and will never be buying another one.
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Now that's something to take with a pinch of salt (not that they said it, but that they mean it). As the awful Michael O'Leary says "my planes are full of passengers who swore they'd never fly Ryanair again".

Selling points: smoothness, quietness, warm feeling of not polluting local environment when waiting in traffic and in multi-storey car parks.
Nippiness, pre-warming (and pre-cooling) and cost per mile have already been covered in previous posts.
 




Badger

Badger

NOT the Honey Badger
NSC Patron
May 8, 2007
13,328
Toronto
alanfp said:
Now that's something to take with a pinch of salt (not that they said it, but that they mean it). As the awful Michael O'Leary says "my planes are full of passengers who swore they'd never fly Ryanair again".

Selling points: smoothness, quietness, warm feeling of not polluting local environment when waiting in traffic and in multi-storey car parks.
Nippiness, pre-warming (and pre-cooling) and cost per mile have already been covered in previous posts.
Click to expand...

All things which can be found in other electric cars. Plenty of car companies not run by a deranged, dangerous, Trump loving billionaire, make very good electric cars. Not buying a Tesla is quite an easy choice to make.
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,329
I have another question on my (hopefully) EV purchase.

I've been looking at some EV's which are quite new, but have very high mileage. Again, at around the £10K bracket, some have done getting on for 100,000 miles

Is there anything I need to factor in here? Battery degredation, how bad is that likely to be? What else can typically give up on EV's which have been driven a a lot
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
24,423
Brighton
Nobby Cybergoat said:
I have another question on my (hopefully) EV purchase.

I've been looking at some EV's which are quite new, but have very high mileage. Again, at around the £10K bracket, some have done getting on for 100,000 miles

Is there anything I need to factor in here? Battery degredation, how bad is that likely to be? What else can typically give up on EV's which have been driven a a lot
Click to expand...
Can’t recommend this video enough on EV battery life:



In short, they should last at least as long as an ICE.

Check out autotrader to find the Tesla’s with 200k and 300k plus millage.
 




chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,998
Nobby Cybergoat said:
I have another question on my (hopefully) EV purchase.

I've been looking at some EV's which are quite new, but have very high mileage. Again, at around the £10K bracket, some have done getting on for 100,000 miles

Is there anything I need to factor in here? Battery degredation, how bad is that likely to be? What else can typically give up on EV's which have been driven a a lot
Click to expand...

To speak frankly surprisingly little.

Any car that has done sky high mileages will have had that much wear and tear on (e.g) suspension components, it will also have been fast-charged a lot, so ask to see it with the battery at 100% and check that the range figure matches your expectations. (About 20% less than manufacturer claim in summer, about 30% less in winter, varies slightly by make/model)

EVs are generally much lighter on their brakes than ICE vehicles, due to the regenerative braking, which encourages a gentler driving style and reduces wear.

Check that the range is ok for your needs, and that there’s nothing unexpected in terms of ride quality or braking performance.

Obviously check that there are no warning lights or messages upon startup, and the other thing that sometimes gets forgotten about is the previous owner hasn’t disassociated themselves from the vehicle in the app.

In the worst case, this can mean waiting until you’ve received the vehicle registration document as proof of ownership before the manufacturer removes the prior keeper from the app and allows you to register as its owner. This is inconvenient, but no more than a temporary annoyance.

The longer term data on EV batteries now suggests that degradation is highest in the first few years and then tails off, so actually I wouldn’t expect significant degradation in anything that isn’t a first Gen Nissan Leaf. Article (based on the video already posted) here:

 




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