[Albion] Julio Enciso - Paraguay’s new wonder kid (Signed 17/06/2022)

Nobby Cybergoat said:

Great that we're likely to get a bit of cash I guess

But something feels a bit wrong in all this. So we sold to Coventry, who sold to Sporting, who might sell to, who knows PSG. Sell on clauses have been a part of football for a long time, but a sell on to a sell on? How does this work in the contract? (and i'm not suggesting you or anyone else should know this) So Coventry are making a contract with Sporting a couple of years back. In that contract they include a clause stipulating that a complete third party (BHA) should benefit? Why would either contracting party want this?

I suppose to answer my own question, Coventry reasoned correctly the value would increase we agreed and waived the sell on in favour of this clause being entered into this contract.

But OK, what if PSG, then sell to Man Utd in 2027. Do we get another cut then?

And morally, that's more my problem, to what extent should a club retain a stake in a player who have changed clubs several times

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Nobby Cybergoat said:

Great that we're likely to get a bit of cash I guess

But something feels a bit wrong in all this. So we sold to Coventry, who sold to Sporting, who might sell to, who knows PSG. Sell on clauses have been a part of football for a long time, but a sell on to a sell on? How does this work in the contract? (and i'm not suggesting you or anyone else should know this) So Coventry are making a contract with Sporting a couple of years back. In that contract they include a clause stipulating that a complete third party (BHA) should benefit? Why would either contracting party want this?

I suppose to answer my own question, Coventry reasoned correctly the value would increase we agreed and waived the sell on in favour of this clause being entered into this contract.

But OK, what if PSG, then sell to Man Utd in 2027. Do we get another cut then?

And morally, that's more my problem, to what extent should a club retain a stake in a player who have changed clubs several times

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Stato said:

There's an interesting line in this article about what Coventry could make from a potential Gykores move published by Talk Sport in November: https://talksport.com/football/2338495/coventry-viktor-gyokeres-sell-on-clause-brighton-transfer/

“Viktor has gone crazy in terms of how he has performed,” Coventry owner Doug King told talkSPORT. “That was a tough negotiation with Sporting Lisbon and if he does move on to somewhere else in his career then we will benefit.

“I’m not holding my breath. We are not running the club on that basis, but we will take it. A large part of that will go to his original club Brighton, everyone seems to think it will go straight in the coffers but it will go down the chain."

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kevo said:

I love Enciso. Gives everything on the pitch and a hugely talented player. Was developing into our star man under RDZ until he got injured.

Don't understand why Fab is so reluctant to play him when fit or even bring him on as a sub. Maybe there really is a 'personality clash'. If so, good managers know how to overcome that.

Buanaotte I can fully understand going out on loan as he needs time to develop. But Enciso is good enough for our starting XI. He will shine at Ipswich and I get a strong feeling we won't see him playing for us again. I will be gutted if so.

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MJsGhost said:

I don't think there needs to be any explicit agreement between two clubs involved in a transfer for money to be paid to a club or clubs who held and transferred a player's registration earlier in their career. All it would be is that club 'C' selling to club 'D' for a profit triggers an extra payment to club 'B' because of the existing sell-on clause between B and C.
Club A may then be due a percentage of B's additional profit if the contract of sale between A & B included a sell-on.

This would all depend on the wording of the sell-on clauses i.e. to include any and all profit made from a subsequent sale.

If each contract of sale has a similar clause, there’s no limit to the number of times extra revenue could trickle back up the chain (though a percentage of a percentage of a percentage etc means a smaller slice of the pie each time, though the pie itself might grow).

Any of the contracts in the chain could have something written in to limit the sell-ons (or might not include one), but assuming they don’t, here's what could happen using our Viktor as an example...

(figures for illustration only, so please don’t call me out if I have got some known contract info wrong)

If our contract with Coventry stipulated that the fee is £1m plus 25% of any subsequent profit they make from selling him on. We’d bank £1m at that point, but would be due 25% of anything Coventry make over £1m when selling him (i.e. including the fee and their sell-on).​

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Coventry sell to Sporting: £15m + 10% of any profit Sporting make from selling him on. We bank another £3.5m at this point (25% of the £14m profit)​

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Sporting sell to PSG for £100m +10% of any profit made from selling him on. Coventry are now paid another £8.5m (10% of £85m profit). We are owed 25% of that £8.5m – another £2.125m banked.​

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If PSG were to sell to Real Madrid for £150m... Sporting get £5m more (10% of £50m profit); Coventry are owed 10% of that: £500k; and we are then owed 25% of that: £125k.​

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In this scenario, we make £6.75m in total (£1m + £3.5m + £2.125m + £0.125m)​

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Coventry make £17.25m.​

Sporting make £76.5m.​

PSG make £45m.​

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Congratulations to anyone still reading... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz​

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Beanstalk said:

Had this explained to me quite well by someone at the club years ago. If Sporting sold to PSG (or similar) and didn't include a sell on fee, then sold to United, the chain would be broken, if all clubs in the chain had sell on fees, we would receive money.

So if Gyokeres followed your example and went to PSG and the United the chain would look something like this (completely making up fees for the sake of explanation and keeping all sell ons at 20% for the same reason):

Man United buy VG for £100m from PSG.
PSG receive £100m but give £20m of that to Sporting.
Sporting receive £20m but give £4m to Coventry.
Coventry receive £4m but give Brighton £800k.

PSG = £80m
Sporting = £16m
Coventry = £3.2m
Brighton = £800k.

If PSG/Sporting didn't include a sell on fee in their deal however, none of that money goes any further down the chain and PSG would receive £100m for VG from Manchester United.

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chaileyjem said:

He was the last player to leave the pitch on Sunday and hung around - until the fans - a bit slow to catch on - finally started singing his song which he acknowledged.As @Bozza hints at re: the contractual to and fro - It looked like a goodbye / and he knew the significance of it.

Also thought it was interesting/sentimental/ symbolic even for Fab to send Gomez and Enciso on together (to waste time basically) in the last few minutes. A nice touch.

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Algernon said:

Absolutely.
Delap smashing defenders and Enciso buzzing around here there and everywhere like a wasp.
I think Delap will get fed up with Enciso's random shooting and have a strong word in his ear.
I see it developing into a very good partnership if Delap scares patience into him.

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BadFish said:

I think I have declared Ensico, Barco and Buonanotte as my favourite and our most exciting players.

This could mean I am a poor judge of player (likely) or that we are not valuing flair players at the moment?

Football is a bit mechanical and dull at the moment. Bring back the flair players with a bit of unpredictability.

Premier league problems eh?

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Paulie Gualtieri said:

To be fair his return based on number of games both at club and intentional level isn’t great.

If you replaced his goals against Chelsea and Man City with two tap ins he would be perceived totally different as someone not living up to the hype.

He’s dined out on the goals. The next 5 months is probably the most important period of his career to see what a regular run of games at the top level returns

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kevo said:

Were you at Molineux when we beat Wolves 4-1? (one of our best ever Premier League performances). He was absolutely outstanding in that game, easily the best player on the pitch.

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kevo said:

Were you at Molineux when we beat Wolves 4-1? (one of our best ever Premier League performances). He was absolutely outstanding in that game, easily the best player on the pitch.

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kevo said:

Were you at Molineux when we beat Wolves 4-1? (one of our best ever Premier League performances). He was absolutely outstanding in that game, easily the best player on the pitch.

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fisons said:

Apart from Mitoma obvs

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Paulie Gualtieri said:

To be fair his return based on number of games both at club and intentional level isn’t great.

If you replaced his goals against Chelsea and Man City with two tap ins he would be perceived totally different as someone not living up to the hype.

He’s dined out on the goals. The next 5 months is probably the most important period of his career to see what a regular run of games at the top level returns

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ConfusedGloryHunter said:

He wears his heart on his sleeve and obviously isn't happy with his situation.

It is a shame but obviously Wellbeck, Pedro, Rutter and Mitoma are ahead of him in the pecking order at the moment (when fit) and then he has to compete with Gruda and Adingra and sometimes O'Riley for playing time too.

That long injury layoff put him back a bit and he hasn't had a long enough run of games since to get back to his best. Going on loan to do that makes perfect sense.

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The Sock of Poskett said:

Maybe letting him go on loan to Ipswich for the rest of the season is exactly the right way of supporting his growth? If he's going to be a nailed on starter for them, getting a solid run of games under his belt again is precisely what he needs.

He helps them stay up, scores a few, assists a few and arrives back with us for pre-season a reborn player, reader to make a starting place his own next season?

After all, chances are we aren't going to have the full roster of attacking talent we currently have when it comes to next season. Someone will either have been sold for mega bucks or picked up a long term injury. Hope not, but it's pretty likely ...

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Nobby Cybergoat said:

I've tried countering these arguments many times along the lines of ..........

He shoots a bit much. Well the rest of them probably shoot too little

If you're on social media enough to notice who else in on social media a lot, you're probably on it too much yourself

Like every other young player we have, he wants to play for his country. What do we expect?

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kevo said:

Were you at Molineux when we beat Wolves 4-1? (one of our best ever Premier League performances). He was absolutely outstanding in that game, easily the best player on the pitch.

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