[Politics] Trump's new gender executive order...

Hugo Rune · 2025-01-22T20:20:10+0000

m20gull said:
It undoubtedly gives the 'anti-woke' an opportunity but the fundamental question remains: if there are spaces where you want society divided do you do it on sex or gender?

And that’s the problem with gender and sex and why it is a godsend to ‘anti-woke’ culture war stokers.

This is a very simple question where some people need a simple answer. However, the answers are very complex depending on situation and circumstance. A division of ‘two’ does not fully represent the population, either in sex or gender.

Those who need simple answers to what they perceive as simple questions (but actually are not) find Trumpism very alluring, however, his answers are very rarely solutions. Just hate.

But perhaps there is a simple answer? Try being nice to people instead of trying to divide them.

Zeberdi · 2025-01-22T20:29:50+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
That is a very good question to which I have no simple answer.
My suggestion:

For sport, it has to be sex.

For anything non-competitive that involves possible nudity then if you have an intact cock and balls you need to join the 'men' queue.

For anything else, it should be decided by the individual.

Well you made it simple

Except public toilets. What about public toilets? If you have a cock, can you use the ladies because unless there are urinals in the ladies, one could have some ladies ‘types’ pissing on seats because not all ladies with cocks will remember to lift up the seat when pissed or even put it down again (even if they are not pissed but just out of habit), which would upset the other ladies, the ones who are ladies who have never even had a cock, let interested in getting one removed?

m20gull · 2025-01-22T20:32:38+0000

Hugo Rune said:
And that’s the problem with gender and sex and why it is a godsend to ‘anti-woke’ culture war stokers.

This is a very simple question where some people need a simple answer. However, the answers are very complex depending on situation and circumstance. A division of ‘two’ does not fully represent the population, either in sex or gender.

Those who need simple answers to what they perceive as simple questions (but actually are not) find Trumpism very alluring, however, his answers are very rarely solutions. Just hate.

But perhaps there is a simple answer? Try being nice to people instead of trying to divide them.

Unfortunately society finds a need to divide the population, say in sporting competition.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2025-01-22T20:40:40+0000

Zeberdi said:
Well you made it simple

Except public toilets. What about public toilets? If you have a cock, can you use the ladies because unless there are urinals in the ladies, one could have some ladies ‘types’ pissing on seats because not all ladies with cocks will remember to lift up the seat when pissed or even put it down again (even if they are not pissed but just out of habit), which would upset the other ladies, the ones who are ladies who have never even had a cock, let interested in getting one removed?

Isn't that something non-competitive that involves possible nudity?

Cocks to the gents, then, Shirley?

As it happens, an increasing number of lavvies are becoming gender neutral. So unless you insist on waving it about . . . and even then....if some docker type waved his cock at me dahn the lav, regardless (or even irregardless) of whether he's wearing a Dick Van Dyke chimney sweep suit, or a ball gown, he'd get a hard kick in the bollocks from me.

Giraffe · 2025-01-22T20:43:55+0000

Brian Munich said:
Oooh, NSC's racists are triggeeeerrred.

That doesn’t even make sense.

And show me a single post where I have said something racist. Just one out of my 25,000+ posts.

Or apologise.

North of Robertsbridge · 2025-01-22T20:45:16+0000

Giraffe said:
The sex of a child is determined at fertilisation/conception. Someone has read a wrong fact and posted it on here and you're all wailing about it. Dear oh dear.

I hate to contradict a moderator, but -

Mrs NoR was co-author of the original scientific research paper on the SRY (sex-determining region Y chromosome) gene that showed how embryo sex is determined, after all start out female. The team at ICRF showed that it is possible to edit DNA to change the sex of an embryo before birth (they didn’t do this with human DNA)

Paper in Nature

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2025-01-22T20:45:19+0000

m20gull said:
So a clearer statement might be that genetic factors that determine sex are fixed at conception. Laws are frequently open to interpretation unfortunately - see discussions on this forum about penalties recently! The intent of the executive order seems clear enough but implementation will show.

Ah that.
I was interested in the wider discussion of sex and gender.
I am somewhat less interested in a new law brought in by Trump decree.
Its imperative has only marginally more substance than Herod's Great Plan to kill all infants under the age of 2 in order to Get Jesus.

Hugo Rune · 2025-01-22T20:47:33+0000

m20gull said:
Unfortunately society finds a need to divide the population, say in sporting competition.

Indeed dozens and dozens of situations, all with their own nuances and justifications. There is no simple ‘one answer’ if you want to address each situation on their merits.

Curious Orange · 2025-01-22T20:48:43+0000

Hugo Rune said:
And that’s the problem with gender and sex and why it is a godsend to ‘anti-woke’ culture war stokers.

This is a very simple question where some people need a simple answer. However, the answers are very complex depending on situation and circumstance. A division of ‘two’ does not fully represent the population, either in sex or gender.

Those who need simple answers to what they perceive as simple questions (but actually are not) find Trumpism very alluring, however, his answers are very rarely solutions. Just hate.

But perhaps there is a simple answer? Try being nice to people instead of trying to divide them.

Being nice to people doesn't mean always doing as others want though, particularly when being nice to a tiny group of people means putting another far larger group of people in unpleasant or downright dangerous situations.

Zeberdi · 2025-01-22T20:57:49+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Isn't that something non-competitive that involves possible nudity?

Cocks to the gents, then, Shirley?

As it happens, an increasing number of lavvies are becoming gender neutral. So unless you insist on waving it about . . . and even then....if some docker type waved his cock at me dahn the lav, regardless (or even irregardless) of whether he's wearing a Dick Van Dyke chimney sweep suit, or a ball gown, he'd get a hard kick in the bollocks from me.

Do you go into public toilets in the nude H?

Seriously what kind of state are you actually in when you’re pissed

Edit btw - I was being facetious - light hearted reference to the whole debate that’s been going on in this Country about transgender and neutral public spaces.

Motogull · 2025-01-22T20:59:29+0000

Zeberdi said:
What about public toilets?

If you have a tail, you stand up to piss. If you are a no tail, you sit down to. It wouldn't bother me to piss next to a burley fella in make up, hitching up his skirt.

dejavuatbtn · 2025-01-22T21:03:41+0000

Seagull58 said:
One notable thing about Trump's first term, which is already being repeated, is how bad his lawyers and acolytes were at producing unambiguous or just correctly worded documents. They seem to churn out said documents in a stream of consciousness process with little review and editing by well-educated adults.

Given time a troop of monkeys can come up with at least one sensible order. Trouble is I don’t think anyone reading this forum will be alive long enough to see it.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2025-01-22T21:14:59+0000

Zeberdi said:
Do you go into public toilets in the nude H?

Seriously what kind of state are you actually in when you’re pissed

Edit btw - I was being facetious - light hearted reference to the whole debate that’s been going on in this Country about transgender and neutral public spaces.

You have almost got the full hang of comedy.
I salute you.

:wink:

("full hang" was perhaps not the best pair of words in this context, but it is what it is.
I agree that this whole business is a case of gammon getting outraged on behalf of others, breaking their own Rule of Life.).

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2025-01-22T21:17:46+0000

Motogull said:
If you have a tail, you stand up to piss. If you are a no tail, you sit down to. It wouldn't bother me to piss next to a burley fella in make up, hitching up his skirt.

I sit down to piss because my prostate is hypertrophic.
Does that mean I am secretly.... a lady?

I very much hope so.
It would be so rafraîchissant et délicieux

m20gull · 2025-01-22T21:21:06+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Ah that.
I was interested in the wider discussion of sex and gender.
I am somewhat less interested in a new law brought in by Trump decree.
Its imperative has only marginally more substance than Herod's Great Plan to kill all infants under the age of 2 in order to Get Jesus.

Happy to engage on that wider discussion. It seems to me accepted that sex is objective while gender is subjective and the question is how you order society on something subjective. Ideally you would not want society ordered: there should be no need for separate best actor/actress categories if there were even representation. But were there is a need then you require objectivity, sport being an obvious example. Even then it's clear that there might be some sports where sex is not a defining measure of success (equestrianism being a commonly quoted example) and then you don't divide.

The wider question is do you need to define gender if it doesn't determine a different outcome? If sex is actually significant in a given situation, should gender override that?

Zeberdi · 2025-01-22T21:22:04+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
You have almost got the full hang of comedy.
I salute you.

("full hang" was perhaps not the best pair of words in this context, but it is what it is.
I agree that this whole business is a case of gammon getting outraged on behalf of others, breaking their own Rule of Life.).

Thanks for that very dry and poorly veiled way of saying you “didn’t quite find my response amusing but well done you lille ole Zeb for the effort”

And no, please leave all hanging fruit on the tree and yes, gammon outrage it all is.

Bodian · 2025-01-22T21:26:48+0000

Motogull said:
If you have a tail, you stand up to piss. If you are a no tail, you sit down to. It wouldn't bother me to piss next to a burley fella in make up, hitching up his skirt.

Motogull · 2025-01-22T21:32:46+0000

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I sit down to piss because my prostate is hypertrophic.
Does that mean I am secretly.... a lady?
I very much hope so.
It would be so rafraîchissant et délicieux

That's okay. Sometimes I stand up to release brown fish. I guess we cancel each other out.

Nottseagull · 2025-01-22T21:38:01+0000

Chicken Run said:
Bit like that urban myth from the 90’s where there are 3 woman (i wanted to put bird’s) to every bloke in Nottingham

Well that's down from the 5:1 ratio that I heard from 1979

You would have indeed been quite wrong to type bird's - it should just be birds.

Harry Wilson's tackle · 2025-01-22T21:48:50+0000

Zeberdi said:
Thanks for that very dry and poorly veiled way of saying you “didn’t quite find my response amusing but well done you lille ole Zeb for the effort”

And no, please leave all hanging fruit on the tree and yes, gammon outrage it all is.

Well, I wouldn't put it quite like that... :wink:

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