[Albion] 2 lucky VAR calls in last two matches?

TWOCHOICEStom · 2024-12-28T08:52:46+0000

jcdenton08 said:
I thought it was a red.

View attachment 194231

Reading that I can‘t understand how he got away with it. He didn’t try to shake him off or anything. He absolutely flung his elbow back and if he’d connected it would have been awful.

Lucky boy

GrizzlingGammon · 2024-12-28T09:01:21+0000

Han Solo said:
Like I said, not seen one single fan or neutral from any other team agree with this. Plenty here though.
Wonder why?

I can't decide if you're a swede or a massive turnip.

Braggfan · 2024-12-28T09:53:18+0000

jcdenton08 said:
I thought it was a red.

View attachment 194231

When it happened I didn't think it was a red because he didn't make contact. But on reflection, I asked myself if he had swung a haymaker and there had been a foot between them and no contact, would I still have thought it wasn't a red. And I think no, I would have said that's clearly violent and agressive and should be a red. With that in mind, I don't think there's any difference between the scenarios, so I think it should have been a red last night. I realise that it's still subjective and some will disagree, but the one thing that is absolutely certain is Pedro was a bloody idiot. He needs to stop that petulant behaviour.

Braggfan · 2024-12-28T09:58:06+0000

South Stand Bonfire said:
It wasn’t fine but it was never a red card. No tinted glasses on, just saw what happened in real time at the match and on TV when I got home. Player pulls Perdo back, Pedro raises his elbow in frustration which was nowhere near the Brentford player.

He didn't raise his elbow in frustration. He clearly swung his elbow back at the guys face, and was lucky it was no where near.

armchairclubber · 2024-12-28T09:59:49+0000

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
Didn't Clattenburg actually say that it wasn't a red because it was seen as a gesture to the referee rather than a serious attempt to inflict serious damage to the player?

Not how it looked tho, no matter how many times you watch the replay. Looked like serious intent which very luckily missed

Clattenburg contradicted himself the more the evening went on. He started with the 'intent has nothing to do with it' line and gave his in play verdict of no contact, no foul.

He was challenged on this by Glenn Murray after the game (who disagreed and thought it should have been a red) and then appeared to accept that intent could have something to do with it.

He stopped at reversing his decision (he was starting to look an incompetent analyst) and then gave his gesture scenario and that you would need to be certain of intent.

Ended up agreeing with GM it was fortunate it could now not go to the panel as VAR decision has been made.

Uncle Spielberg · 2024-12-28T10:02:00+0000

Both red cards for me

The Antikythera Mechanism · 2024-12-28T10:09:00+0000

Perhaps FH should read this thread and not select JP for the next three games?

Herr Tubthumper · 2024-12-28T17:21:10+0000

martin tyler said:
Clattenburg said: "If we look at the laws of the game as it's written, it has to be to strike an opponent or attempt to strike an opponent. Because there was no contact he can't be sent off the field of play for the contact. Therefore, it's whether he attempted to strike the opponent. The more I look at it, because it's an unusual action, especially from behind he is looking towards Andy Madley when he swings his arm. He keeps his arm quite close to his body and I think it's more of a gesture to the referee.

That was Clattenburg - suppose the point is only Joao knows what his intent is. He may have meant it he may not but no one saw enough to suggest he did.

Clattenburg needs to look at the laws again. He’s wrong.

DaveTurner · 2024-12-28T18:00:09+0000

Happened right in front of me, not a foul and never a card. He was getting kicked and pulled all night, yes showed some frustration but was off balance from the assault on him. It’s sad that 2 hand shoves have now become a part of every game and players are supposed to not react.

Han Solo · 2024-12-28T18:15:39+0000

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
Perhaps FH should read this thread and not select JP for the next three games?

Dunno about FH himself making the decision but yes the club should suspend the player for a few games.
That is what I would have done if one of the youth players I coached tried to elbow someone else in the face.

Uh_huh_him · 2024-12-28T18:19:52+0000

Simster said:
If that is the law as it stands, then he's definitely lucky. How anyone can say "never a red" is beyond me if the law is that a player only has to attempt to use excessive force to be sent off.

The rest of my post assumes that this is the current law, but in my opinion, he was definitely attempting to hit the Brentford player with his elbow. It's subjective of course, but if the ref had seen it the same way then I doubt VAR would have overturned it.

The ref was a couple of yards away from it and looking directly at it, in 3 dimensions.
I would guess his vantage point was by far the best viewpoint of teh incident.
He didn't even consider talking to JP about it.

Uh_huh_him · 2024-12-28T18:25:10+0000

TWOCHOICEStom said:
Reading that I can‘t understand how he got away with it. He didn’t try to shake him off or anything. He absolutely flung his elbow back and if he’d connected it would have been awful.

Lucky boy

Because the law is subjective.
How do you define an attempt to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent.

IMO he did use excessive force and brutality.
But as the blow was actually nowhere near the player, it can't be deemed as an attempt against the opponent.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · 2024-12-28T18:27:26+0000

Bozza said:
Clattenburg explained that it couldn't be a red, under the rules of the game, as there was no contact.

He said intent has nothing to do with it, so whether Pedro did intend to connect or not, makes no difference.

So tonight seems to be a cast-iron non-red by the letter of the law.

He came last on The Wheel so I wouldn't be too reliant on his knowledge.

I'm pretty sure he is completely wrong on that which I would say is surprising considering it was his job ....but you know ....the wheel n all that.

papachris · 2024-12-28T18:31:48+0000

Han Solo said:
Yes incredibly lucky.

The case tonight is one where the club should step in and ban the player.

Both getting a red card (which would have been the case if he had hit) and a perhaps 2 months long suspension and trying to elbow another player in the face is completely unacceptable and needs to be labelled and treated as such.

If Pedro had made contact he could have caused a serious injury to the opponent. It's really unacceptable behaviour.

Uh_huh_him · 2024-12-28T18:32:35+0000

Braggfan said:
When it happened I didn't think it was a red because he didn't make contact. But on reflection, I asked myself if he had swung a haymaker and there had been a foot between them and no contact, would I still have thought it wasn't a red. And I think no, I would have said that's clearly violent and agressive and should be a red. With that in mind, I don't think there's any difference between the scenarios, so I think it should have been a red last night. I realise that it's still subjective and some will disagree, but the one thing that is absolutely certain is Pedro was a bloody idiot. He needs to stop that petulant behaviour.

I've heard it mentioned that the player was actually past the theoretical point of contact when JP threw the elbow.
difficult to tell from the angles I've seen and in 2 dimensions.

I suspect that may be the case though, as Madley was a couple of yards away and looking straight at them.
He didn't even bother talking to JP about it, which I'm sure he would have done, if there had been any chance of it connecting.

Bodian · 2024-12-28T19:06:45+0000

Uh_huh_him said:
The ref was a couple of yards away from it and looking directly at it, in 3 dimensions.
I would guess his vantage point was by far the best viewpoint of teh incident.
He didn't even consider talking to JP about it.

Didn't book him either.

pb21 · 2024-12-28T19:54:21+0000

papachris said:
If Pedro had made contact he could have caused a serious injury to the opponent. It's really unacceptable behaviour.

If he had shot with a shotgun him he could have killed him

Han Solo · 2024-12-28T19:57:56+0000

pb21 said:
If he had shot with a shotgun him he could have killed him

So therefore shooting with a shotgun in the general direction of people should be legal as long as you don't hit someone?

Wozza · 2024-12-28T20:00:04+0000

pb21 said:
If he had shot with a shotgun him he could have killed him

pb21 · 2024-12-28T20:18:39+0000

Han Solo said:
So therefore shooting with a shotgun in the general direction of people should be legal as long as you don't hit someone?

No, it's a fair point, if Pedro had indiscriminately fired a shot gun yesterday he should have been sent off.

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[Albion] 2 lucky VAR calls in last two matches?

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