[Albion] Bissouma (Gone to Spurs 17/06/2022)

Hugo Rune · 2024-12-22T21:32:01+0000

Han Solo said:
I think he would. Insecure guy. Doesn't really like it in the big clubs. Better suited for an underdog.

Yes but he can’t shoot-for-shit.

Just look at what happens when Baleba gets forward and takes a shot - different gravy and I’m not talking about that shit you serve up with your meat balls!

Our team is bereft of know how and experience at the moment. Rather than willing Biss back, perhaps we should be after the sort of Veltman/Lallana/Milner signings who can help us hold a lead rather than being the team that gives up the most points from winning positions.

Machiavelli · 2024-12-22T21:34:59+0000

Han Solo said:
Recency bias.

Bunch of people never knew how good Biss was but he had a 18 month spell for us where he topped PL stats of tackles and interceptions and whatnot. Complete and utter monster.

Not even Caicedo or Alexis reached the heights of 2020/21 Biss, never mind Baleba (though the potential is there).

20-22 Biss was something else, but Moises and Ali Mac thereafter were on a different level. I said at the time that there wasn't a better midfield duo in club football, and haven't been provided with a convincing counter to that as yet.

Jim in the West · 2024-12-22T22:38:52+0000

Anyone who thinks Biss is better than Baleba is (imho) seriously lacking in basic football understanding. We’re still a little way from reprising the Moises-Ali Mac duo, but with Ayari and Weiffer improving by the match I think we have every chance of witnessing another great combo in the near future.

jcdenton08 · 2024-12-22T22:42:47+0000

We have, in the past and even recently with coaches, what feels like a quite remarkable record in bringing back ex’s, some with reasonable success.

Off the top of my head, we’ve brought back in Gordon Greer, Tomer Hemed, Bobby Zamora (twice), Paul Watson, Nathan Jones, Paul Rogers, Inigo Calderon, Bruno, Glenn Murray, Sam Baldock, Steve Sidwell - going back further Dean Hammond, Johnny Byrne, Andrew Crofts…

So it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, if the club want him and he is indeed available.

However I can’t see it happening. I think we’ve moved on. Yalcouyé though I can see returning and featuring in the squad.

One Teddy Maybank · 2024-12-22T22:45:16+0000

Machiavelli said:
20-22 Biss was something else, but Moises and Ali Mac thereafter were on a different level. I said at the time that there wasn't a better midfield duo in club football, and haven't been provided with a convincing counter to that as yet.

Totally agree, in all honesty I don’t expect to ever see a better Brighton midfield pairing in my lifetime.

Justice · 2024-12-22T22:46:09+0000

Mustafa II said:
Baleba has been immense all season. You don't know what you're talking about. By far better than 2020-2022 Biss, as you put it.

Even through our recent poor patch of form he's been our best player, probably. But for most of the season he has been an absolute power house - dominating the midfield. Defensively, he has been impeccable. On the attack, he has demonstrated a masterclass of spraying the ball wide, taking on the opposition midfield, and is even a goalscoring threat.

Dare I say it, he's likely to become better than Caicedo will be, looking at his displays this season.

He still needs that football brain does a lot of dumb stuff.
Hopefully that will pass.

Eric the meek · 2024-12-22T22:48:50+0000

A few months after Caicedo left, I wrote on here that we missed him terribly.

We still do.

One Teddy Maybank · 2024-12-22T22:49:55+0000

Eric the meek said:
A few months after Caicedo left, I wrote on here that we missed him terribly.

We still do.

Any team would, world class player…..

Han Solo · 2024-12-22T22:58:16+0000

Hugo Rune said:
Yes but he can’t shoot-for-shit.

Just look at what happens when Baleba gets forward and takes a shot - different gravy and I’m not talking about that shit you serve up with your meat balls!

Our team is bereft of know how and experience at the moment. Rather than willing Biss back, perhaps we should be after the sort of Veltman/Lallana/Milner signings who can help us hold a lead rather than being the team that gives up the most points from winning positions.

Biss controlled Brighton midfield. Baleba is a more creative player and has higher potential but the level of control and physicality Biss excuded.. I haven't seen that level of maturity in Brighton. If we'd kept some players another 2-3 years then sure... but peak Biss is peak Brighton midfield.

Machiavelli said:
20-22 Biss was something else, but Moises and Ali Mac thereafter were on a different level. I said at the time that there wasn't a better midfield duo in club football, and haven't been provided with a convincing counter to that as yet.

As a duo - no shit. Every day of the week.

I'm with you. Biss kept Brighton in the PL with Stephens or Pröpper though. Good players but not above bottom five in the PL.

WhingForPresident · 2024-12-23T00:11:32+0000

Would 100% have him back, and he would undoubtedly make us better. Him sitting deep to give Carlos freedom to get further forward would be amazing.

AstroSloth · 2024-12-23T00:16:19+0000

Han Solo said:
Baleba today has nothing on 2020-2022 Biss. If we can get him back and back to the same level, its a dream signing imho.

Possible? No idea, but doesn't feel like its entirely out of question at some point or another.

This is one of your takes I'm not sure I agree with.

Baleba does more than Biss defensively whilst being a better passer and more of a threat with regards to shooting.

I'd say Biss would be slightly better at dribbling, but Baleba is absolutely no slouch there either.

A midfield of Baleba and Bissouma though? Oh my lord.

AstroSloth · 2024-12-23T00:26:20+0000

Han Solo said:
Biss controlled Brighton midfield. Baleba is a more creative player and has higher potential but the level of control and physicality Biss excuded.. I haven't seen that level of maturity in Brighton. If we'd kept some players another 2-3 years then sure... but peak Biss is peak Brighton.

As a duo - no shit. Every day of the week.

I'm with you. Biss kept Brighton in the PL with Stephens or Pröpper though. Good players but not above bottom five in the PL.

Biss did not keep us in the PL with Stephens or Propper.

Biss wasn't a regular starter for many years. It was only the last two seasons he was a regular starter.

He really started to shine when he had Ali Mac next to him, and then Caicedo replaced him at the end of the season and was looking as good.

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · 2024-12-23T02:23:02+0000

If we got peak Brighton Bissouma who wouldn't want him back?

The Spurs version? I'm not so sure.

Robinjakarta · 2024-12-23T05:53:58+0000

Mustafa II said:
Baleba has been immense all season. You don't know what you're talking about.

Nailed it

Guinness Boy · 2024-12-23T06:59:16+0000

Hugo Rune said:
Yes but he can’t shoot-for-shit.

Just look at what happens when Baleba gets forward and takes a shot - different gravy and I’m not talking about that shit you serve up with your meat balls!

Our team is bereft of know how and experience at the moment. Rather than willing Biss back, perhaps we should be after the sort of Veltman/Lallana/Milner signings who can help us hold a lead rather than being the team that gives up the most points from winning positions.

Bissouma’s decision making, even at his “peak” was appalling. His shot accuracy stats were the worst in the team at a time that Neal Maupay was getting regularly picked.

Yesterday Liverpool simply played around him. He had a shocker but some of it was down to Spurs picking the worst keeper + back four combination I’ve seen in the league this season, and Ange telling them to line up in Bermondsey.

Han Solo · 2024-12-23T07:18:04+0000

AstroSloth said:
This is one of your takes I'm not sure I agree with.

Baleba does more than Biss defensively whilst being a better passer and more of a threat with regards to shooting.

I'd say Biss would be slightly better at dribbling, but Baleba is absolutely no slouch there either.

A midfield of Baleba and Bissouma though? Oh my lord.

Mustafa II said:
Baleba has been immense all season. You don't know what you're talking about. By far better than 2020-2022 Biss, as you put it.

Even through our recent poor patch of form he's been our best player, probably. But for most of the season he has been an absolute power house - dominating the midfield. Defensively, he has been impeccable. On the attack, he has demonstrated a masterclass of spraying the ball wide, taking on the opposition midfield, and is even a goalscoring threat.

Dare I say it, he's likely to become better than Caicedo will be, looking at his displays this season.

Machiavelli said:
20-22 Biss was something else, but Moises and Ali Mac thereafter were on a different level. I said at the time that there wasn't a better midfield duo in club football, and haven't been provided with a convincing counter to that as yet.

Jim in the West said:
Anyone who thinks Biss is better than Baleba is (imho) seriously lacking in basic football understanding. We’re still a little way from reprising the Moises-Ali Mac duo, but with Ayari and Weiffer improving by the match I think we have every chance of witnessing another great combo in the near future.

AstroSloth said:
Biss did not keep us in the PL with Stephens or Propper.

Biss wasn't a regular starter for many years. It was only the last two seasons he was a regular starter.

He really started to shine when he had Ali Mac next to him, and then Caicedo replaced him at the end of the season and was looking as good.

First man on GPs lineup once he returned from the shoulder injury that troubled him back in 19/20. CH had played him in a slightly more attacking role, but Potter put him as DMC and he immediately made the place his after a MoM display against Palace in December '19.

Wonder why no one has backed up their claims about Baleba being better than Brighton-Biss statistically? :lol:

Maybe one of those "doesn't matter, I trust my own eyes" times. Fair enough. But its hard to take seriously when Biss in his Brighton days outperformed anything Caicedo, Mac Allister or Baleba did in nearly every single defensive metric.

He's a world class ball winner when at his best and if there's any chance getting him in, we should try to do anything it takes.

Baleba can become equally good, but he's some way off and also not someone we can build our midfield around since we're not going to be able to keep him. Bringing in a 28-year-old Biss for 5 years would solve a lot of headaches for a long time. Like a Veltman signing.

Baleba is better when it comes to creating chances though. In terms of quality and abilities I think he's more comparable to Dale Stephens, great ball winner and playmaker but not topping any charts in any category (yet).

Terry Butcher Tribute Act · 2024-12-23T07:29:20+0000

His display yesterday was embarrassing. By all accounts the guy comes with a lot of baggage.

Think we were lucky to see his best years, albeit one of those was without crowds.

sussex_guy2k2 · 2024-12-23T07:34:25+0000

Han Solo said:
First man on GPs lineup once he returned from the shoulder injury that troubled him back in 19/20. CH had played him in a slightly more attacking role, but Potter put him as DMC and he immediately made the place his after a MoM display against Palace in December '19.

Wonder why no one has backed up their claims about Baleba being better than Brighton-Biss statistically? Maybe one of those "doesn't matter, I trust my own eyes" times. Fair enough. But its hard to take seriously when Biss in his Brighton days outperformed anything Caicedo, Mac Allister or Baleba did in nearly every single defensive metric.

He's a world class ball winner when at his best and if there's any chance getting him in, we should try to do anything it takes.

Baleba can become equally good, but he's some way off and also not someone we can build our midfield around since we're not going to be able to keep him. Bringing in a 28-year-old Biss for 5 years would solve a lot of headaches for a long time. Like a Veltman signing.

Baleba is better when it comes to creating chances though. In terms of quality and abilities I think he's more comparable to Dale Stephens, great ball winner and playmaker but not topping any charts in any category (yet).

I was just doing exactly that. The problem, of course, is that the quality of the team around both players and the tactical instructions both play under will vary greatly, so a direct comparison isn’t really ideal.

I also don’t think it’s quite fair to judge where Baleba fits yet because a) the sample size of him being at this level is only about 10 games, compared to substantially more for the other two, and b) I’m not sure he’s going to be a defensive midfield pivot in the way Bissouma and Caicedo are.

In terms of the data, 2022 Bissouma was making more tackles and interceptions per match than Baleba currently is. He also committed less fouls per match, albeit it’s marginal. Given the data though, I think a number of the fouls Baleba has committed this year have proven costly… whereas it always felt like Bissouma made intelligent tactical fouls to me, in good areas of the pitch. Bissouma also made more clearances, and got dribbled around slightly less (although, as noted earlier, that will partly be tactical, with this suicidal single pivot role he’s often asked to play).

Of course, the counter argument to that is that Baleba is currently performing better offensively than Bissouma did in his best season for us, but I do think that’s partly because he’s, on occasion, been asked to play further forward with a pivot behind him.

In terms of passing, Biss played more passes per match, but their accuracy was in the same percentile. Baleba plays more key passes, but as stated earlier, I think this is tactical as much as anything - the sofascore app suggests this is the case, with Baleba taking more touches and making more passes higher up the pitch than Bissouma, who made more of his passes in our own half.

El Presidente · 2024-12-23T07:45:29+0000

jcdenton08 said:
We have, in the past and even recently with coaches, what feels like a quite remarkable record in bringing back ex’s, some with reasonable success.

Off the top of my head, we’ve brought back in Gordon Greer, Tomer Hemed, Bobby Zamora (twice), Paul Watson, Nathan Jones, Paul Rogers, Inigo Calderon, Bruno, Glenn Murray, Sam Baldock, Steve Sidwell - going back further Dean Hammond, Johnny Byrne, Andrew Crofts…

So it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, if the club want him and he is indeed available.

However I can’t see it happening. I think we’ve moved on. Yalcouyé though I can see returning and featuring in the squad.

Steve Foster, Peter Ward, Danny Wilson

Lenny Rider · 2024-12-23T07:52:35+0000

There’s more chance of Steve Foster re-signing, unfortunately with Biss, a complex character, it’s no secret that there were a number of HR issues with the player, aside from the obvious one, if he was to return to the Amex I for one would think Tony Bloom had taken leave of his senses.

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