[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

dsr-burnley · Thursday at 11:40 PM

Guinness Boy said:
It’s not a reach to say the cost of living and national debt were far different then to now. There are far better things to spend half a black hole on.

This isn't a subject that was raised in 2022 and ignored since then. The Labour party said loud and clear that they would pay out the Waspi women and have had plenty of time to let it be known that they had changed their mind.

Bozza · Thursday at 11:54 PM

clapham_gull said:
The Tories did more than enough to get booted out. Buckle up, there are out for a decade whilst they decide what they are.

Yes - absolutely, and maybe not, respectively.

They've made an absolute clusterfuck of their first six or months so in power. Their comms has been as bad as it could possibly be - constantly letting stories get ahead of them, and then having to desperately chase to catch up again. Schoolboy stuff. That might be a tad unfair on schoolboys - my 14-y-o could do better.

And then there's been the WFA - utterly shameful and a policy they've repeatedly just blatantly lied about.

All of which pushes a big chunk of the electorate into the welcoming open arms of Farage and Reform. With the huge sums of money that Musk has or could channel towards them, it may create an electoral landscape the like of which we've never seen before.

I was concerned about this unholy alliance anyway but, having listened to The News Agents podcast on the subject, I'm now absolutely terrified. As they said: Labour had a manifesto pledge to look at this kind of funding, but they seem to have not got round to it yet. Too busy trying to kill off pensioners and the like. By the time they get round to it, it may be too late. God help us all.

Kalimantan Gull · Friday at 1:38 AM

I didn't follow this WASPI stuff at all before, but the whole case baffles me. Loads of women asking for 5 years of pension to be paid on the basis that they 'didn't know' that the pension age was going up. What? Can i refuse to pay a tax increase on the grounds that I never got a letter about it?

Starmer shouldn't be attacked for not paying it. He should certainly be criticised for even considering doing so.

I suppose their problem is all the stuff they opportunistically said in opposition coming back to bite them on the arse, a mishmash of empty promises and silly commitments. Because the actual policies make sense. Effectively means testing winter fuel payments. Closing the loophole where large farms can be sold off with no inheritance tax paid. This. They even worked out that Sue Gray was rubbish early on and binned her.

This could be the rare case where a party is much better at governing than being in opposition. Obviously their comms needs some work though.

Guinness Boy · Friday at 6:15 AM

dsr-burnley said:
This isn't a subject that was raised in 2022 and ignored since then. The Labour party said loud and clear that they would pay out the Waspi women and have had plenty of time to let it be known that they had changed their mind.

They did. It wasn’t in their manifesto. It wasn’t in the election debate. It wasn’t in the budget.

nevergoagain · Friday at 8:55 AM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvnlxxp8jko - Mandelson to be next ambassador to the US. Chortle, nothing like dredging up the past.

Bozza · Friday at 9:05 AM

nevergoagain said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvnlxxp8jko - Mandelson to be next ambassador to the US. Chortle, nothing like dredging up the past.

I guess when the US will be led by a man with very questionable ethics and morals, it's only right we put up someone similar.

And with both being good mates of Jeffrey Epstein, they're sure to have a lot to talk about.

Guinness Boy · Friday at 9:45 AM

Kalimantan Gull said:
I didn't follow this WASPI stuff at all before, but the whole case baffles me. Loads of women asking for 5 years of pension to be paid on the basis that they 'didn't know' that the pension age was going up. What? Can i refuse to pay a tax increase on the grounds that I never got a letter about it?

Starmer shouldn't be attacked for not paying it. He should certainly be criticised for even considering doing so.

I suppose their problem is all the stuff they opportunistically said in opposition coming back to bite them on the arse, a mishmash of empty promises and silly commitments. Because the actual policies make sense. Effectively means testing winter fuel payments. Closing the loophole where large farms can be sold off with no inheritance tax paid. This. They even worked out that Sue Gray was rubbish early on and binned her.

This could be the rare case where a party is much better at governing than being in opposition. Obviously their comms needs some work though.

Imagine this thread if Starmer had approved a policy that cost £10.5bn that wasn't in the Labour manifesto :shrug:

Mustafa II · Friday at 9:54 AM

Every day, there are positive news stories from this Labour government. Such a refreshing change to have a government like this, that seems to be true to its word.

All from today, in local news, you can see progress in regards to their house building pledge:

1,200 new homes in Chichester
125 new homes in Billingshurst
100s of new homes in Crawley

Bozza · Friday at 10:04 AM

Guinness Boy said:
They did. It wasn’t in their manifesto. It wasn’t in the election debate. It wasn’t in the budget.

Guinness Boy said:
Imagine this thread if Starmer had approved a policy that cost £10.5bn that wasn't in the Labour manifesto

Almost every single day the government allocates funds to something-or-other that has happened that wasn't in their manifesto nor in their budget.

It's the way government works.

"Sorry we didn't know about that when we did the sums, come back in April when we do the maths again and we'll see if we can help then" isn't the way government works thankfully.

Government is all about choices - Keir Starmer rightly tells us that. And, on this occasion, the government has chosen to eject the findings of an independent ombudsman in what might be unprecedented circumstances. I can't begin to imagine the wailing from some quarters if the Tories did the same. (Reminder: I'm not a Tory)

In her budget Reeves rightly made provision for the infected blood scandal (£11.8bn) and the post office scandal (£1.8bn). I guess the writing was on the wall for the WASPI campaigners that no provision was made for them at the same time.

£10bn is a lot of money, and can be spent in many different ways, all very worthy. At least, on this occasion, Starmer was sort of honest when he said they could not afford to pay the WASPI compensation recommended by the independent ombudsman, although it would have been more accurate if he'd said that he had chosen not to afford it.

My issue with the whole thing is how this exposes their shameful bandwagon-jumping whilst in opposition. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of Starmer and Rayner saying, with great passion and empathy, how they'd ensure the WASPI women would be fairly compensated should they have the opportunity to do so.

Once again, the integrity and honesty that people were voting for seems to have gone AWOL.

nevergoagain · Friday at 10:08 AM

Guinness Boy said:
Imagine this thread if Starmer had approved a policy that cost £10.5bn that wasn't in the Labour manifesto

Were Windrush, Infected Blood, Post Office, Grenfell in the manifesto ?.

Guinness Boy · Friday at 10:09 AM

Bozza said:
In her budget Reeves rightly made provision for the infected blood scandal (£11.8bn) and the post office scandal (£1.8bn). I guess the writing was on the wall for the WASPI campaigners that no provision was made for them at the same time.

Indeed. An absence of the payment in either the manifesto or the budget really should have been some sort of clue. Then again, these are people who apparently didn't notice their pension was changing.

nicko31 · Friday at 10:13 AM

nevergoagain said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvnlxxp8jko - Mandelson to be next ambassador to the US. Chortle, nothing like dredging up the past.

The US government for all intensive purposes will shortly be run by a crime syndicate. We have no one suitable in the Labour party, not in failed state territory just yet

Bozza · Friday at 10:14 AM

Guinness Boy said:
Indeed. An absence of the payment in either the manifesto or the budget really should have been some sort of clue. Then again, these are people who apparently didn't notice their pension was changing.

The independent ombudsman spent many months working on this.

Are you saying their conclusions are wrong?

borat · Friday at 10:14 AM

Bozza said:
I guess when the US will be led by a man with very questionable ethics and morals, it's only right we put up someone similar.

And with both being good mates of Jeffrey Epstein, they're sure to have a lot to talk about.

The fact he is anywhere near a government job is beyond belief.

Mandelson it seems was much closer to Epstein than Trump ever was. Epstein called him from prison for advice and Mandy continued to visit him (including on Epstein birthday) after he had been charged!

Let's not forget he had to resign not once but twice for financial impropriety and helped shaped the false narrative around Iraq

Guinness Boy · Friday at 10:26 AM

Bozza said:
The independent ombudsman spent many months working on this.

Are you saying their conclusions are wrong?

The independent ombudsman doesn't have a budget. I'd rather see the money spent on Education, Transport, the NHS and controlling immigration. If only there was a magic money tree.

To answer your question, no idea. I'd have to read their findings and I have neither the time nor inclination to do so. I know when my tax and pension positions are changing. So should they have.

WATFORD zero · Friday at 10:33 AM

I must ask @Bozza, do you think this Government is worse than the last one, because I don't remember you getting involved much on the 'Tory party meltdown' thread that was running for 3 years and was created to highlight what the previous Government was getting wrong (or many political threads at all).

But you are a significant contributor to the two equivalent threads started up to do the same to this Government over the last few months. Is it just taking more of an interest, or do you think you are holding this Government to higher standards because you expected more ?

Bozza · Friday at 10:34 AM

Guinness Boy said:
To answer your question, no idea. I'd have to read their findings and I have neither the time nor inclination to do so. I know when my tax and pension positions are changing. So should they have.

An independent ombudsman found the DWP guilty of maladministration on this matter yet you, who admits having no knowledge at all, is happy to just dismiss that.

Understood.

Guinness Boy · Friday at 10:36 AM

Bozza said:
All of which pushes a big chunk of the electorate into the welcoming open arms of Farage and Reform. With the huge sums of money that Musk has or could channel towards them, it may create an electoral landscape the like of which we've never seen before.

I was concerned about this unholy alliance anyway but, having listened to The News Agents podcast on the subject, I'm now absolutely terrified. As they said: Labour had a manifesto pledge to look at this kind of funding, but they seem to have not got round to it yet. Too busy trying to kill off pensioners and the like. By the time they get round to it, it may be too late. God help us all.

This isn't universally accepted. Steve Anglesey, editor of The New European has recently said (paywalled but a few excerpts):

"Despite a general election breakthrough in 2024, Reform’s leader and his new treasurer Nick Candy know the party is still some way short of justifying the subsequent hype, including Farage’s assertions that it will win “hundreds” of seats in 2029. There have been 173 council by-elections since July 4, and Reform has won only six of them. According to the seat predictor model of Oxford professor Ben Wansell, its current polling average of around 20% would result in a total of only 13 seats.

Even if Musk were to stump up the $100m (£78m) that has been widely discussed, this would count as Farage’s first serious political mistake. No doubt he will enjoy spending Musk’s cash, but he is unlikely to relish questions about why he is suddenly so keen on allowing unelected foreigners to buy political influence in Britain. It is the sort of thing he once railed against

Britons, anecdotally less impressed than their transatlantic cousins by gaudy wealth, have a largely negative view of a conspiracy theorist who stoked the flames of the summer’s riots in the UK and has turned Twitter into a troll-ridden cesspit inhabited by racists and bots. Musk’s net favourability rating in Britain, according to YouGov, is -46%"

Guinness Boy · Friday at 10:40 AM

Bozza said:
An independent ombudsman found the DWP guilty of maladministration on this matter yet you, who admits having no knowledge at all, is happy to just dismiss that.

Understood.

I know WHAT they found. But I don't really know WHY they found it. And I've no inclination to read it and pick holes in it so I can write about it on a football forum.

The point remains that the money simply isn't there, something the ombudsman doesn't have to consider.

Bozza · Friday at 10:40 AM

WATFORD zero said:
I must ask @Bozza, do you think this Government is worse than the last one, because I don't remember you getting involved much on the 'Tory party meltdown' thread that was running for 3 years and was created to highlight what the previous Government was getting wrong.

But you are a significant contributor to the two threads started up to do the same to this Government over the last few months. Is it just taking more of an interest, or do you think you are holding this Government to higher standards because you expected more ?

I appreciate your concern and interest.

I guess it's easier to play the man and not the ball when your team are playing like Jurgen Locadia.

I think it's too early to play a government version of Top Trumps, but the last government were dreadful and it's hard to imagine any subsequent government being worse than that.

I'm not sure why that should be any kind of measure though. I would hope Starmer et al are aiming for a future epitaph that is better than "Not quite as bad as those Tory fuckwits".

But, yes, I do find myself feeling far more politically-interested than I have for quite some time. I do try to avoid these threads though, because, as I've said before, I fear I'll end up sounding like the same kind of utter wanker as many of those who live and breathe these threads.

That's not to say any of us are actually utter wankers, just these discussions tends to have us acting like one.

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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

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