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[Football] Southgate knighthood ? what do you think ?











R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
5,032
Giraffe said:
Wind back to pre Southgate. We were a joke, none of the players really wanted to play for England, and the country had given up on the team. It was really that bad. Succesive managers had failed despite having a golden era of players.

Under his leadership this was completely turned around and we reached two Euro finals and a world cup final.

By any measure he is the second most successful England manager in history.

He has also done that with dignity and humility.

Just because he is ex Palace and didn't pick Brighton players (generally) doesn't mean we can't respect what he achieved. He gave me some of my best England supporting moments ever. For that I'd happily knight him. Southgate you're the one.
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From what I've seen in recent games we still are a bit of a joke. There are still players who don't want to play for England aren't there Mr White? Will be interesting to see whether he has a change of heart when Turchell turns up.

To go back to the honoured cyclists. Would any of them have been worthy of a knight/damehood if they had never actually WON anything but had lost with "dignity and humility"? Not in my book.
 


G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,294
This next knighthood could be title-defining.
 














nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,711
Gods country fortnightly
A yes from me.

The most successful England manager is the era since everyone started playing football
 






slartibartfast

slartibartfast

Active member
Sep 11, 2004
343
Henfield
Personally - I think he deserves a huge amount more respect than he seems to get for totally changing the narrative of the England team from where we were in 2016. What short memories some people have. I'm 61, and although I was alive for the 1966 Final, I was only 2 and a half , and have no memories of it first hand. My first memories are of the build up to Mexico in 1970, sticker books, and us being World Champions (of course!) - and the horrible disappointment of Leon.
Since then, up until Southgate, we have been way way short of anything at all. No finals, just the two semi finals, (both lost to the Germans), over a 46 year period. FORTY-SIX ! That isn't just a blip - that was the reality for us , for England - the absolute norm. We failed to qualify for 1974, 1976, 1978, 1984, 1994, 2008. We went out in the Group Stages in 1980, 1988, 1992, 2000, 2014. That is a total of ELEVEN tournaments in which we have failed to get into the middle stages of a tournament. That was the reality for us - the norm.
For the others - let me list the roll of shit - 1970: QF defeat to West Germany after being 2-0 up, 1972: QF thrashing by West Germany, 1982: Second round group stage elimination, 1986: QF defeat to Argentina (and yeah, hand of god and all that, but we were second best in that game anyway), 1990: SF defeat on pens to West Germany, 1996: SF defeat on pens to Germany, 1998: 2nd round defeat on pens to Argentina, 2002: QF defeat to Brazil, 2004: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2006: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2010: 2nd round thrashing by Germany, 2012: QF defeat on pens to Italy, 2016: 2nd round defeat to Iceland.... 13 mediocre showings, outside of the ten in which we failed to get to the mid stage. In short 24 tournaments - ZERO finals, just TWO semifinals......over 48 years!
Since Southgate - 2018 - SF defeat to Croatia, 2020 - Final defeat on pens, 2022- QF defeat to France, and 2024 - Final defeat to Spain. How on earth is that not a massive upgrade on what we have pretty much lived with for a lifetime? This has been the best ever period following England in my entire (sentient) life! By any measure.

Give the guy a bit of credit, please.
 


T

Toongull

Active member
Jul 25, 2008
162
Hadrian's Wall
slartibartfast said:
Personally - I think he deserves a huge amount more respect than he seems to get for totally changing the narrative of the England team from where we were in 2016. What short memories some people have. I'm 61, and although I was alive for the 1966 Final, I was only 2 and a half , and have no memories of it first hand. My first memories are of the build up to Mexico in 1970, sticker books, and us being World Champions (of course!) - and the horrible disappointment of Leon.
Since then, up until Southgate, we have been way way short of anything at all. No finals, just the two semi finals, (both lost to the Germans), over a 46 year period. FORTY-SIX ! That isn't just a blip - that was the reality for us , for England - the absolute norm. We failed to qualify for 1974, 1976, 1978, 1984, 1994, 2008. We went out in the Group Stages in 1980, 1988, 1992, 2000, 2014. That is a total of ELEVEN tournaments in which we have failed to get into the middle stages of a tournament. That was the reality for us - the norm.
For the others - let me list the roll of shit - 1970: QF defeat to West Germany after being 2-0 up, 1972: QF thrashing by West Germany, 1982: Second round group stage elimination, 1986: QF defeat to Argentina (and yeah, hand of god and all that, but we were second best in that game anyway), 1990: SF defeat on pens to West Germany, 1996: SF defeat on pens to Germany, 1998: 2nd round defeat on pens to Argentina, 2002: QF defeat to Brazil, 2004: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2006: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2010: 2nd round thrashing by Germany, 2012: QF defeat on pens to Italy, 2016: 2nd round defeat to Iceland.... 13 mediocre showings, outside of the ten in which we failed to get to the mid stage. In short 24 tournaments - ZERO finals, just TWO semifinals......over 48 years!
Since Southgate - 2018 - SF defeat to Croatia, 2020 - Final defeat on pens, 2022- QF defeat to France, and 2024 - Final defeat to Spain. How on earth is that not a massive upgrade on what we have pretty much lived with for a lifetime? This has been the best ever period following England in my entire (sentient) life! By any measure.

Give the guy a bit of credit, please.
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Whilst you can’t argue with most of that what has to be questioned is Southgate’s tactics, especially when ahead. Granted he’s been unlucky at times but there is no way on earth we shouldn’t have won Euro 2020. We were by far the better team and had Italy for the taking but decided to sit back and the rest is history. There’s no denying he’s been a good manager but should have achieved more with this group of players and that’s the bottom line.
 


L

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
6,092
1734631137017.jpeg

This **** got one, so anything is possible……..
 




Cheshire Cat

Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
Nov 4, 2006
11,896
Sitting on a bough of a tree a few yards off...


hart's shirt

hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
11,166
Kitbag in Dubai
I've done my views on Southgate to death for the last few years, so there's little to no point rehashing most of them here.

What I will say is that his joyless, sterile, pragmatic version of football is the polar opposite to how I think football should be played and what makes it the beautiful game. Within days of his departure, I rejoined ESTC with the confidence that whatever was going to be offered up in the future by anyone else couldn't be any less appetizing to this purist's palate.

Being bailed out by individual moments of brilliance in the summer ultimately wasn't enough to mask his tactical limitations and in-game decision making.

At the risk of being uncharitable in the season of goodwill, his major service to English football in 2024 was his resignation. In truth, it should've happened after Qatar and long before he relegated England in the Nations League.

I don't begrudge him happiness in the future and I've no doubt that he'll find plenty of success away from the pitch with business schools who want to look into his particular management style with players.

An inspired signing from an HR perspective, but when it came to closing the business, rather like his penalty in Euro 96, he couldn't get it over the line.

As for making him a knight, with his defensive approach it's more a case of Lancealittle rather than Lancelot. Having stabbed the dragon once early on, he'd sit back and surrender the advantage hoping the beast would eventually run out of time either by dying of its wounds or plain boredom.
 


T

timbha

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,587
Sussex
Toongull said:
Whilst you can’t argue with most of that what has to be questioned is Southgate’s tactics, especially when ahead. Granted he’s been unlucky at times but there is no way on earth we shouldn’t have won Euro 2020. We were by far the better team and had Italy for the taking but decided to sit back and the rest is history. There’s no denying he’s been a good manager but should have achieved more with this group of players and that’s the bottom line.
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You could argue that most England managers have had a talented group of players, eg Barnes, Hoddle, Beckham, Gascoigne, Robson, Waddle, Lampard, Gerrard, etc, etc at their disposal, but none of them got as far in a major comp as Southgate. I suppose he deserves a knighthood more than his predecessors (Bobby Robson got one) but feel they are given away too freely nowadays.

Suppose he deserves it more that a Strictly winner🤣

It’s a no from me.
 


T

Toongull

Active member
Jul 25, 2008
162
Hadrian's Wall
timbha said:
You could argue that most England managers have had a talented group of players, eg Barnes, Hoddle, Beckham, Gascoigne, Robson, Waddle, Lampard, Gerrard, etc, etc at their disposal, but none of them got as far in a major comp as Southgate. I suppose he deserves a knighthood more than his predecessors (Bobby Robson got one) but feel they are given away too freely nowadays.

Suppose he deserves it more that a Strictly winner🤣

It’s a no from me.
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Absolutely, Bobby Robson did win the UEFA Cup as a manager though and an FA cup if I remember rightly. More of a winner than Southgate. Not really achievements worthy of a Knighthood though.
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,965
slartibartfast said:
Personally - I think he deserves a huge amount more respect than he seems to get for totally changing the narrative of the England team from where we were in 2016. What short memories some people have. I'm 61, and although I was alive for the 1966 Final, I was only 2 and a half , and have no memories of it first hand. My first memories are of the build up to Mexico in 1970, sticker books, and us being World Champions (of course!) - and the horrible disappointment of Leon.
Since then, up until Southgate, we have been way way short of anything at all. No finals, just the two semi finals, (both lost to the Germans), over a 46 year period. FORTY-SIX ! That isn't just a blip - that was the reality for us , for England - the absolute norm. We failed to qualify for 1974, 1976, 1978, 1984, 1994, 2008. We went out in the Group Stages in 1980, 1988, 1992, 2000, 2014. That is a total of ELEVEN tournaments in which we have failed to get into the middle stages of a tournament. That was the reality for us - the norm.
For the others - let me list the roll of shit - 1970: QF defeat to West Germany after being 2-0 up, 1972: QF thrashing by West Germany, 1982: Second round group stage elimination, 1986: QF defeat to Argentina (and yeah, hand of god and all that, but we were second best in that game anyway), 1990: SF defeat on pens to West Germany, 1996: SF defeat on pens to Germany, 1998: 2nd round defeat on pens to Argentina, 2002: QF defeat to Brazil, 2004: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2006: QF defeat on pens to Portugal, 2010: 2nd round thrashing by Germany, 2012: QF defeat on pens to Italy, 2016: 2nd round defeat to Iceland.... 13 mediocre showings, outside of the ten in which we failed to get to the mid stage. In short 24 tournaments - ZERO finals, just TWO semifinals......over 48 years!
Since Southgate - 2018 - SF defeat to Croatia, 2020 - Final defeat on pens, 2022- QF defeat to France, and 2024 - Final defeat to Spain. How on earth is that not a massive upgrade on what we have pretty much lived with for a lifetime? This has been the best ever period following England in my entire (sentient) life! By any measure.

Give the guy a bit of credit, please.
Click to expand...
Just damn unlucky the King gig is occupied right now
 


phoenix

phoenix

Well-known member
May 18, 2009
2,876
5Ways Gull said:
Sporting knighthoods should only go to people who win things.
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It seems he won many hearts . Thats actually a really nice thing, not a fan of his but decent person who did well at seemingly not falling out with many people. Good luck to him i say.
 


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