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[Albion] Dunky







zefarelly

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
22,898
Sussex, by the sea
borat said:
Phasing Dunk will be a difficult (but increasingly necessary task) - I think hes seen by the club/some fans and players as the leader and club representative. Could it cause a dressing room split?

Estupinan had a superb first season but I just dont think hes good enough.

From the current squad I think Estupinan, Ferguson, Lamptey (if not played further forward), Webster are not good enough to take us to that ''next level''
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On one hand I agree . . . . But in harmony, as they've shown/proven . . .they are good enough . . . . . Thats teamwork and management . . . .

We're in uncharted waters in some respects . . . .hoping to sustain elevated status . . . . . Consistency in success is no stroll.
 


aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
5,407
brighton
Luke93 said:
Dunk has declined, but not to the point of finished. I also don’t believe any of our CBs are as good as people think or as bad as useless.

Igor made mistakes leading to goals at Liverpool, Fulham (it was a poorly executed pass and choice back to Verbruggen), Southampton and Leicester. Rotating Dunk back in was justified. Van Hecke and Dunk are better together, but not good enough to carry a weakened defence with poor cover at fullback. Igor has a horrible habit of carrying the ball for too long because he can be indecisive and hesitant to play the correct pass. Afraid to make a mistake so will eventually just play a safe short pass. And he’s been caught out for this.

Van Hecke is our best defender. Has a slightly better tackle success then Dunk, better at headed duels, faster, recovers better but he’s still developing his game. Despite what his catchy song states, there are still many better CBs in the league. When Dunk isn’t playing, you can notice the drop off in progressive passes and decision making from the back. For the stat buffs, Dunk and Van Hecke both outperform Igor and Webster for our CBs this year, but are only middling compared to our rival teams.

I’m sure people will quote how good Igor and Van Hecke were vs City and Bournemouth. And rightfully so, they had great games then. But I’d also point to Wolves at home which lacked concentration at the end and Newcastle away (Dunk and Igor), which was our best defensive display of the season IMO.

The common factor in our better successes, regardless to the CB pairing, is Veltman and Welbeck being on the pitch. Why? Probably their experience. Dunk still offers that and still has qualities needed on the pitch.
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Agreed. But on your last point, Welbz & Veltz have experience at a sustained higher level & a calmness they manage to share. Lewis, especially now, not so much
 


A

albionalex

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
4,762
Toronto
zefarelly said:
Our recruitment genius has failed in building succession into our defense. Dunk should have started the phase out last season

we have no left or right bak cover for Veltman or Estupinian. Igor is no better/worse than Dunk, neither good enough for our aspirations of top 7 . . .

JPVH will be sold (VVD replacement) before the rebuild is complete, which is the wrong way round.
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Lamptey, Ferdi, Hinshelwood, Barco
 


















zefarelly

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
22,898
Sussex, by the sea
albionalex said:
Lamptey, Ferdi, Hinshelwood, Barco
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Lamptey - emergency cover, not good enough for top half, as a defender.
Ferdi - new boy, unproven, and broken . . .
Hinsh . . .like Gross, adequate cover but not a natural/best position nor solution.
Barco . . . . Looked promising, but a kid and shipped out on loan

Websters perma-snapped . . .

anyone else?
 




P

Pliny the Gull

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2024
231
Defensive system as a whole rather than individuals is the problem IMO
Early success this season with an hour high press. Everyone pushing up and tiring as the game goes on, leaving very little cover at the back. Wolves, Leicester , Fulham etc.
Need to start organising consistent systems rather than calling out individual performance all over the pitch.
 


N

NorthstandRacoon

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2017
2,297
Withdean. Just behind the theatre of trees.
Pliny the Gull said:
Defensive system as a whole rather than individuals is the problem IMO
Early success this season with an hour high press. Everyone pushing up and tiring as the game goes on, leaving very little cover at the back. Wolves, Leicester , Fulham etc.
Need to start organising consistent systems rather than calling out individual performance all over the pitch.
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Good points.
 


Luke93

Luke93

STAND OR FALL
Jun 23, 2013
5,101
Shoreham
zefarelly said:
Lamptey - emergency cover, not good enough for top half, as a defender.
Ferdi - new boy, unproven, and broken . . .
Hinsh . . .like Gross, adequate cover but not a natural/best position nor solution.
Barco . . . . Looked promising, but a kid and shipped out on loan

Websters perma-snapped . . .

anyone else?
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Milner. If fit he’s the experience and Rb cover we need. But Milner is rarely fit when we need him as cover so he’s easy to forget.

We also can’t undermine the importance Welbeck plays for the defensive set up. Even when leading the line, he starts the movements our back line look for when playing their passes. Poor runs from up top can lead to our defenders delaying their play, passing short or playing a riskier long ball. Ferguson and Pedro are not as good in this area. Also missing Welbeck dropping back in defending set plays and his voice on the pitch. He organises from the front.
 




A

albionalex

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
4,762
Toronto
zefarelly said:
Lamptey - emergency cover, not good enough for top half, as a defender.
Ferdi - new boy, unproven, and broken . . .
Hinsh . . .like Gross, adequate cover but not a natural/best position nor solution.
Barco . . . . Looked promising, but a kid and shipped out on loan

Websters perma-snapped . . .

anyone else?
Click to expand...

I think Lamptey, Ferdi, Hinsh and Barco is a pretty good collection of backups.

I doubt many other PL teams have a similar quality of backup.
 




Washie

Washie

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
6,135
Eastbourne
zefarelly said:
Lamptey - emergency cover, not good enough for top half, as a defender.
Ferdi - new boy, unproven, and broken . . .
Hinsh . . .like Gross, adequate cover but not a natural/best position nor solution.
Barco . . . . Looked promising, but a kid and shipped out on loan

Websters perma-snapped . . .

anyone else?
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Looked promising going forward. Looks like a better Lamptey, good at bringing the ball forward and skilful with the ball, but very suspect at the back. Something we were told when we signed him. He looks more to be a winger than a left back.
 


zefarelly

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
22,898
Sussex, by the sea
Washie said:
Looked promising going forward. Looks like a better Lamptey, good at bringing the ball forward and skilful with the ball, but very suspect at the back. Something we were told when we signed him. He looks more to be a winger than a left back.
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I think you can say the same for nearly all of them . . . Attacking wing backs

which further highlights the importance of weapons grade centre backs. Not vintage traction engines.
 
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chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,784
None of us know if Dunk is having a temporary dip in form while working his way back to fitness, or if time has caught up with his legs.

Webster can’t be relied upon to be available, so to play three at the back we need at least 2 x CBs regardless. Hopefully McConville pushes his way through into some game time, but it’s clear we will need some form of established reinforcement.

I’d argue that CB and GK are the hardest positions in which to bring young prospects through, just because the consequences of each individual error is so often a goal for the opposition.
 
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R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
5,027
Luke93 said:
Milner. If fit he’s the experience and Rb cover we need. But Milner is rarely fit when we need him as cover so he’s easy to forget.

We also can’t undermine the importance Welbeck plays for the defensive set up. Even when leading the line, he starts the movements our back line look for when playing their passes. Poor runs from up top can lead to our defenders delaying their play, passing short or playing a riskier long ball. Ferguson and Pedro are not as good in this area. Also missing Welbeck dropping back in defending set plays and his voice on the pitch. He organises from the front.
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Remember, remember 26 August 2023. Milner started at right back v West Ham and he got taken apart. No pace, no stamina, caught out of position numerous times. A truly shocking display; the worst I have seen in the Amex era by a right back.

He really isn't the answer. No sireeee.
 


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