[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

Right Brain Ronnie · Nov 26, 2024

Bodian said:
You really can't get away with that!

Berty23 is referring to things that have recently been in the news, so don't need endless reading. The amount of lying that was carried on by the Tories is well known without a lot of reading - so are the dodgy deals for their mates and Farage not being seen in Clacton.

You say you don't know anything about this because you don't do endless reading. Yet at the same time you're able to refer to Starmer and his cabinet lying and being hated, and causing deaths during the cold weather. Presumably you have got through enough reading to be able to formulate these views?

I may have not got my point across because I assume people too often can get my lateral thinking, apologies for that.
I have never said all MPs don't lie, but labour kept banging the drum saying they don't lie. So the hypocrisy of it all makes labour the worst of all the party's.
I don't read hardly anything, I scan things and miss stuff or don't understand the format it has been said in.
So TV, and other vocally said things are logged in my mind, that is where I build my pictures of what is happening and my advanced pattern recognition tells me labour are going to screw our country financially and cause much misery as people are made unemployed through their lack of growth plans.
Workman party my arse, working public sector party is their only focus.

Peteinblack said:
Your truth, but not mine.

Were/are you comfortable with the lies that Boris and Nigel Farage have spouted out for years - or are Right-wing populist lies somehow OK?

Thanks for being the first person I have heard admit they are happy with Starmer and what he is doing. The rest as above.

Bodian said:
Didn't read them.....

I thought you had more class than that.

nicko31 said:
We about 1/13th of our way through the electoral cycle. A lot more whining to go...

Are the second person to confess your happy with Starmers u turns and how he has conned the electorate?

Please don't confuse any whining to be attached to the election result, it's what they are doing, and it's the message coming loud from the vast majority of the country.

Starmer stares paralysed and vacant in to space as if, his hard disk has failed him.

Surely his days are numbered? The changing room will be laying the boot in, going on itv morning telly talking about how he took his daughter to a escape room, won't cut it, thank god her grandfather was a toolmaker so they were able to get out, can't imagine Keir had any ideas to escape.

If this was a story it would be funny, but it's not, Starmer has to go.

lawros left foot · Nov 26, 2024

Hey, Ronnie,

Can you tell us how you are going to get rid of a PM that has a Parliamentary majority of 156.

I don’t think a petition signed by a load of foreign bots on twitter is going to cut it, personally.

And if , as you say it’s the vast majority of the country, why has Labour rating gone up by 1%.
Surely if they were massively unpopular, their ratings would be in single figures.

Rdodge30 · Nov 26, 2024

lawros left foot said:
Hey, Ronnie,

Can you tell us how you are going to get rid of a PM that has a Parliamentary majority of 156.

I don’t think a petition signed by a load of foreign bots on twitter is going to cut it, personally.

And if , as you say it’s the vast majority of the country, why has Labour rating gone up by 1%.
Surely if they were massively unpopular, their ratings would be in single figures.

I think it’s 20% of Labour MP’s need to write to the General Secretary of the Labour Party to force a leadership challenge.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Nov 26, 2024

Genuine question

What in the manifesto/in this recent election campaign have they gone against with their policies so far

I keep seeing them labelled as "lying on what they said they would do in the election".

I don't LIKE some of their policies, but are any of them things they promised they wouldn't do in this manifesto/campaign?

Zeberdi · Nov 26, 2024

Rdodge30 said:
I think it’s 20% of Labour MP’s need to write to the General Secretary of the Labour Party to force a leadership challenge.

Edited.

Misunderstood post.

Agreed!

lawros left foot · Nov 26, 2024

Rdodge30 said:
I think it’s 20% of Labour MP’s need to write to the General Secretary of the Labour Party to force a leadership challenge.

You think that would happen?

drew · Nov 26, 2024

Right Wing Ronnie is surely a caricature!

He distorts what people say to try and justify his own apparent right wing agenda.

Comical but equally worrying.

Commander · Nov 26, 2024

All the 'They're doing things they said they wouldn't do in the election campaign' stuff does make me laugh.

If they said what actually needed doing in the election campaign, the public wouldn't have voted for them.

The problem is that the people need to be lied to, because they can't handle the truth.

dsr-burnley · Nov 26, 2024

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
Genuine question

What in the manifesto/in this recent election campaign have they gone against with their policies so far

I keep seeing them labelled as "lying on what they said they would do in the election".

I don't LIKE some of their policies, but are any of them things they promised they wouldn't do in this manifesto/campaign?

They promised in the manifesto not to raise National Insurance, and they promised in the campaign not to touch IHT for farmers. They didn't promise anything about Winter Fuel allowance so far as I know, but considering the rumpus they have been making for years about the Tories' plans (real or imaginary) to cut it, it was universally understood that they were in favour of keeping it.

Rdodge30 · Nov 26, 2024

Zeberdi said:
No it’s not and no they don’t.

The Petition is calling for a General Election and is nothing more than grumpy Tory/Reform voters politiking and bot bombing - it won’t change a thing.

There is no way Starmer will be challenged in a leadership election unless there is a General Election looming and his lack of popularity becomes an albatross for Labour to win a second term.

Misunderstanding… I was answering how could Starmer be removed

But I really do think it is 20% of parliamentary Labour Party needed to start the process

Rdodge30 · Nov 26, 2024

lawros left foot said:
You think that would happen?

Highly unlikely at the moment… you would have to work back from who the likely successor would be - Raynor perhaps? I have read a list somewhere of all the different factions within the parliamentary Labour Party. I think it’s big on ex Union officials/affiliates - so when the time comes she will probably have the votes to start the process but I doubt the votes to win.

I don’t see the left challenging now because Starmer (Reeves) are very left leaning.

I think Ed is keen for a second go!! When Starmer was having a wobble a few weeks back (Winter Fuel) suddenly Ed gave public statements on 4 different aspects of policy in 24 hours - only one of which was in his department’s portfolio. Most dangerous place in Westminster between Ed and a tv camera

The funny thing is that since Starmer was elected party leader- right up to the election, Andy Burnham was the bookies favourite to be next Labour Party leader and even though he’s not in parliament he’s still 4th in the betting?

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Nov 26, 2024

dsr-burnley said:
They promised in the manifesto not to raise National Insurance, and they promised in the campaign not to touch IHT for farmers. They didn't promise anything about Winter Fuel allowance so far as I know, but considering the rumpus they have been making for years about the Tories' plans (real or imaginary) to cut it, it was universally understood that they were in favour of keeping it.

The NI was for workers though right? Working people. I don't remember (correct me if I'm wrong) them ever promising not to raise taxes on businesses.

Also when did they specifically promise not to touch IHT on farmers? I don't remember seeing that (that's not meant in a sarcastic way btw. I'm genuinely interested if it was a broken promise). I've googled it and can't find it.

Right Brain Ronnie · Nov 26, 2024

lawros left foot said:
Hey, Ronnie,

Can you tell us how you are going to get rid of a PM that has a Parliamentary majority of 156.

I don’t think a petition signed by a load of foreign bots on twitter is going to cut it, personally.

And if , as you say it’s the vast majority of the country, why has Labour rating gone up by 1%.
Surely if they were massively unpopular, their ratings would be in single figures.

Where did I say I was going to get rid of him? No one in his party can be happy with what he has been doing and the lying that has been attached to it. Wait and watch as it all implodes on him.

Okay somehow many foreign bots have signed sad petition? And can you show us the evidence?

I have not seen any poll suggesting that, was it a poll of train drivers and junior doctors?

Are you still happy with all they are doing?

Starmers even trying to fast track the chagos islands, just because Trump doesn't agree, why would he wind up our biggest alliance and suck up to our of and biggest threats to world peace?

Xi Jinping has Starmer in his pocket and the out of his depth vacant looking QC is happy to be there.

Curious Orange · Nov 26, 2024

cunning fergus said:
Don’t let Alex Sobel near the wheel he should really be sectioned.

Trans men can be pregnant too, says Labour MP in attack on ‘gendered language’

Alex Sobel claims there could be ‘serious consequences’ if medics do not ask the right questions

search.app

He isn't wrong though. There is no place for gender nonsense in medicine, as people can suffer serious medical implications if they are treated based on how they identify rather than their actual sex.

dsr-burnley · Nov 26, 2024

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
The NI was for workers though right? Working people. I don't remember (correct me if I'm wrong) them ever promising not to raise taxes on businesses.

Also when did they specifically promise not to touch IHT on farmers? I don't remember seeing that (that's not meant in a sarcastic way btw. I'm genuinely interested if it was a broken promise). I've googled it and can't find it.

What they said was that they would not increase NIC, and they said it both verbally and in their manifesto. The sentence in the manifesto was "Labour will not increase taxes on working people, which is why we will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT."

What they now claim is that the part of the sentence "we will not increase National Insurance" meant "we will not increase Employees' National Insurance", and if only we had read the hidden subtext in the small print we would have understood that Employer's National Insurance does not count as National Insurance.

As for farming, here's the proof.

DEFRA secretary Steve Reed admits he U-turned on farm inheritance tax

The secretary of state in charge of rural affairs, Steve Reed, has admitted he has changed his stance on farm inheritance tax because of the "£22bn black hole left by the Tories". When he was shadow DEFRA secretary, Mr Reed told two farmers' conferences a year ago Labour had no plans to change...

uk.news.yahoo.com

Bodian · Nov 26, 2024

dsr-burnley said:
What they said was that they would not increase NIC, and they said it both verbally and in their manifesto. The sentence in the manifesto was "Labour will not increase taxes on working people, which is why we will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT."

What they now claim is that the part of the sentence "we will not increase National Insurance" meant "we will not increase Employees' National Insurance", and if only we had read the hidden subtext in the small print we would have understood that Employer's National Insurance does not count as National Insurance.

As for farming, here's the proof.

DEFRA secretary Steve Reed admits he U-turned on farm inheritance tax

The secretary of state in charge of rural affairs, Steve Reed, has admitted he has changed his stance on farm inheritance tax because of the "£22bn black hole left by the Tories". When he was shadow DEFRA secretary, Mr Reed told two farmers' conferences a year ago Labour had no plans to change...

uk.news.yahoo.com

You said earlier "and they promised in the campaign not to touch IHT for farmers" That link refers to a comment over a year ago. That's not during the campaign, and not related to the manifesto.

As to NI - we've been through the discussion of working people may times before. We all knew what it meant - it meant not affecting your pay packet. Trying to say it extended to employers NI is just aftertiming.

chip · Nov 26, 2024

This bodes well

Watchdog refuses to sign off UK public sector accounts over unreliable data

National Audit Office ‘disclaims’ accounts because of shortcomings in auditing of English local authorities

www.theguardian.com

BBassic · Nov 26, 2024

14 years the Tories had and people are signing a petition for a re-run of an election after 5 months?

Get in the f***ing sea.

Or, to quasi-ironically quote something that was repeatedly bandied about after the Referendum: you lost, get over it.

Me Atome · Nov 26, 2024

Bodian said:
You said earlier "and they promised in the campaign not to touch IHT for farmers" That link refers to a comment over a year ago. That's not during the campaign, and not related to the manifesto.

As to NI - we've been through the discussion of working people may times before. We all knew what it meant - it meant not affecting your pay packet. Trying to say it extended to employers NI is just aftertiming.

You're clutching at straws now.

dsr-burnley · Nov 26, 2024

Bodian said:
You said earlier "and they promised in the campaign not to touch IHT for farmers" That link refers to a comment over a year ago. That's not during the campaign, and not related to the manifesto.

As to NI - we've been through the discussion of working people may times before. We all knew what it meant - it meant not affecting your pay packet. Trying to say it extended to employers NI is just aftertiming.

I'm an accountant. I know what NIC is. It might not occur to you that Employer's National Insurance is National Insurance, but it does to me. If they wanted to be clear that they only referred to Employer's National Insurance, they could have been,. Using the excuse that it was hidden in the small print does not qualify as honesty.

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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

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