PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 595
You will believe who you want to believe. Just because one happened - it doesn’t mean the other didn’t.
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[News] Trouble in The Dam
- Thread starter heathgate
- Start date
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
What about believing both! It seems to me Maccabi fans attacked a taxi, the driver being pissed off with this likely told his mates, who then colluded with the attackers, it doesn't make one side right and one side wrong, no one comes out of this looking particularly good.
PascalGroß Tips
Well-known member
- Jan 29, 2024
- 595
Which is exactly what I was saying. Both things happened by all accounts.
superseagull1994
Active member
- Jun 21, 2011
- 112
Lets face it the whole thing is a shit show.
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
I agree which is why IMO, I think the media and politicians jumping on it using terms like 'pogrom' etc, is not really needed until we get a clearer context.
superseagull1994
Active member
- Jun 21, 2011
- 112
Agreed, I thought this got disproportionate coverage compared to when fans normally fight or wreck up a city during European competitions.
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
Violence happened in a similar way when they played Olympiacos or Panathanikos in the conference league last year, I didn't see rescue planes etc, Netanyahu has used this ONCE AGAIN as time to flex his muscles.
Ali_rrr
Well-known member
It's massive here because hooliganism on the streets hasn't been this bad in years here. Normally the trouble occurs in stadiums themselves due to the away regulations (every match is a bubble match). Added to the fact people from all over the country came to Amsterdam to cause trouble, as had been the case at multiple universities in the protests, it's a huge deal coinciding with a large commemoration of Kristallnacht. Added to the fact some Maccabi fans were living up to many people's pre-conceived notions of Israelis before the game, it was bound to have some trouble.
To be honest, I am sure the media organisations have been eagerly awaiting trouble like this to finally happen in Europe since the Hamas attack last October and are delighted there's more polarisation and division they can cause.
Ali_rrr
Well-known member
Unsurprising really. Wilders, the leader of the most popular party in The Netherlands, is a friend of Netanyahu and is very anti islam. In Greece, I'm not sure who was attacking them but in this case it is obvious who the perpetrators of the attack were.
Netanyahu will use this in Israel to justify his appalling war crimes and Wilders will use it to further his disgusting anti-islam rhetoric.
I fear the perpetrators of these attacks on the Maccabi fans have done more indirect damage than they realise.
superseagull1994
Active member
- Jun 21, 2011
- 112
I can see why it'd be a huge story in the Netherlands as I'd expect football violence in a UK city to be here, but it's a leading headline on most news here and you don't get that for other clashes around football matches. I think your last sentence is spot on.
Wardy's twin
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- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,872
aolstudios
Well-known member
From a (Jewish) friend, earlier...
"a football fan rang in on Alex Phillips phone in on Talk this morning. Hearing personal testimony is so powerful. He intervened as an Israeli was being badly beaten by an organised gang of Arabs. They sais "Are you a Jew?" " He said no. Then" Are you Israeli? "He said no. The gang leader instructed them to leave him because he's only British. So they let him off with a light punishment for trying to save a Jew. Smashed him in the face, breaking his glasses and causing facial injuries. I cried, listening."
Just normal football violence, obvs
"a football fan rang in on Alex Phillips phone in on Talk this morning. Hearing personal testimony is so powerful. He intervened as an Israeli was being badly beaten by an organised gang of Arabs. They sais "Are you a Jew?" " He said no. Then" Are you Israeli? "He said no. The gang leader instructed them to leave him because he's only British. So they let him off with a light punishment for trying to save a Jew. Smashed him in the face, breaking his glasses and causing facial injuries. I cried, listening."
Just normal football violence, obvs
yep , people should be ashamed of themselves defending the agenda at all costs
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
There is once again context to that situation that @Ali_rrr explained multiple times, but of course like all your posts on this subject you are just going to tell everyone why they should be ashamed of themselves and how we're all so awful, laughing at any point anyone makes.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,872
Whose to say self same fans have not been opposing Netanyahu?
So you are saying it doesn't matter because they are all the same?
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,872
Maybe they had a Jewish relative who fought in the war in the Jewish Brigade whose flag was the Star of David....
aolstudios
Well-known member
Tell me the "context to the situation" in my post
Please
pigmanovich
Good Old Sausage by the Sea
Not out of the question, but MTA ultras' reputation precedes them, even if they're less notorious than Beitar Jerusalem's fans. For example:
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
You raise a valid point to be fair, but personally I see this as two groups of fascists (Maccabi Ultras and whoever the attackers were) having a scrap, and as a result a lot of innocent Maccabi fans not related to their ultras have got caught up in it, and those fascists have decided to pick on random people who looked jewish which is disgusting and those people are bad. Something that happens almost weekly in european football, hatred against islam in European football circles is also in a dire state.
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,936
That people were being attacked on the street based on their ethnicity, however that people have targeted the event, which its important to realise is because Maccabi ultras are some of the most racist supporters in Israel (barring maybe Beitar Jerusalem), I'm just a little sceptical because I'm familiar with Maccabi's reputation, to think there wasn't organisation on both sides, and provocation. If this had happened to a club like Hapoel for example I'd be much more alarmed, than I am currently, which is still pretty alarmed, but to be me seems to be organised fighting, rather than a random occurrence.