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[Politics] The Labour Government



Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,313
Back in Sussex
A1X said:


Oh when will we be free of this awful Government? They’re giving more money to the plebs now. The BASTARDS.
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I must admit, I find this a slightly strange one to triumph in the way you have.

Not because it's not good news - any rise in the National Minimum Wage clearly is - but because it's primarily an apolitical move.

Governments are advised on what to where to set NMW levels by the Low Pay Commission, which is politically independent, and I'm not sure a single government has ever not followed the LPC's recommendations.

If I were the kind to vote for a pig with a red rosette, what I would really be shouting about is Labour's change of remit to the LPC to, in time, remove the disparity in NMW for those 18-20. There really is no good reason why someone who is 20, capable of contributing just as much as a 21-year-old, should be paid less. This is a really positive move from this Labour government.

Finally, just for my own interest, do you recall posting on here to praise the last government for uplifts in NMW?

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M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,778
Fiveways
portslade seagull said:
Probably nowhere near as bad as when the little note was left by Labour
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One of these is an ongoing 'joke' successively left by figures within the Treasury, the other is a report by an independent body with expertise in this area. But you carry on doing the Tories work for them, it's not as if they haven't got the press, wealth, etc behind them.
 


N

nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,539
nowhere near Burgess Hill
The Clamp said:
If I were wealthy there’s not a chance on earth I’d live in the UK.

It’s a decaying country.

Beyond saving .


When you go abroad to EU countries, you get a stark reminder of how far we have sunk since Brexit.
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I get what you're saying but I politely disagree. I think everywhere is decaying sadly. If you take just our travels in Europa League Marseille was a dreadful shit hole in the main but the port area wonderful. Parts of Athens, Rome & Amsterdam the same and I think that's replicated virtually everywhere. For me don't think it's too late yet but I would agree it's going that way. We seem to be turning into a nation that is so entitled and demanding without people wanting to actually sort things out for themselves and put the effort in to make things better.
 


Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
641
crookie said:
Budget thread has nothing to do with the budget so, as a small business owner in the hospitality industry the 6% rise in minimum wage and increased NI for businesses is shit. What happened to the burden falling on those with the broadest shoulders. Most small businesses don't make huge profits yet are set to be clobbered here. Reduced hours for staff, inflationary price rises to pay for it. Thought we were supposed to be laser focused on economic growth. Yet again, clobbering the productive side of the economy rather than wealth will do the opposite. And I say this as someone who was happy with the election result
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M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
10,260
saaf of the water
crookie said:
Budget thread has nothing to do with the budget so, as a small business owner in the hospitality industry the 6% rise in minimum wage and increased NI for businesses is shit. What happened to the burden falling on those with the broadest shoulders. Most small businesses don't make huge profits yet are set to be clobbered here. Reduced hours for staff, inflationary price rises to pay for it. Thought we were supposed to be laser focused on economic growth. Yet again, clobbering the productive side of the economy rather than wealth will do the opposite. And I say this as someone who was happy with the election result
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Spot on.

Problem is we have a Chancellor who has never run a business, let alone started one, reporting to a PM who has never run a business, being advised by Civil Servants who've never run a business.
 


Giraffe

Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Aug 8, 2005
27,237
nevergoagain said:
I get what you're saying but I politely disagree. I think everywhere is decaying sadly. If you take just our travels in Europa League Marseille was a dreadful shit hole in the main but the port area wonderful. Parts of Athens, Rome & Amsterdam the same and I think that's replicated virtually everywhere. For me don't think it's too late yet but I would agree it's going that way. We seem to be turning into a nation that is so entitled and demanding without people wanting to actually sort things out for themselves and put the effort in to make things better.
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Agreed. I've done a lot of Europe in the last 18 months and everywhere feels like it is struggling under a lot of the same challenges. The train system in Germany for example, once heralded for it's efficiency, is now very hard work, with cancellations and delays as common place as in the UK.

The exception I found was Finland which was all very efficient in my two days there. No time to judge anything though really.
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,313
Back in Sussex
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Spot on.

Problem is we have a Chancellor who has never run a business, let alone started one, reporting to a PM who has never run a business, being advised by Civil Servants who've never run a business.
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Whilst out walking the dog this morning, Torsten Bell was on 5Live representing the government, and covering off today's budget.

The presenter was basically reading out questions that had been sent in, one of which came from an SME owner with, if I recall correctly, 68 employees. I can't remember what the specific question was now, but the point is it was coming from someone at the sharp end - out there running a business, employing people, helping to drive the UK economy.

Bell's response was to say that the business owner was wrong - as simple as that. The dismissive tone was utterly dreadful, and would have had business owners across the country choking on their cornflakes. I've also looked up Torsten Bell's past, eager to understand his business-owning past and, you may be surprised about this, he seems to have absolutely none at all.
 




Giraffe

Giraffe

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Helpful Moderator
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Aug 8, 2005
27,237
The rumoured increase in CGT is a growth killer. I meet SME business owners on a daily basis. In the last few weeks they have been universally appalled by what the Government are saying and very fearful for their future. They feel they are being attacked on all fronts. Many have run their business for 20-30 years, employing people, generating PAYE/NI/VAT for the government, paying corporation tax. A lot of them have sacrificed everything including their own take home money to grow their business in the knowledge they were growing their asset and the tax benefits of selling this asset are currently favourable - it encourages them to grow the business and reinvest in the business. As it seems that the favourable CGT landscape is about to change they feel totally betrayed. Their business is their pension.

There is also an additional point here. Surveys show that business owners that sell their business go on to start a new business often with the same success. If they are taxed more that means less available funds for new business start ups. A circle that again spirals into less growth. I really don't think the Government have thought this through and I fear unemployment will rise as a result.

Additionally the increase in ERs NI will hit the employees and potentially result in increased unemployment. The SME owners may take this hit themselves, or look to reduce costs elsewhere, less staff wages, or increase prices. None of that is great. However the real impact will be seen by the big corporates. They have to maintain profit levels, that's in built in the plc and private equity model. As a result they have to either cut costs to pay for the extra Ers NI burden or increase prices. The former leads to wage deflation or more unemployment, the latter to increased inflation. Neither is good.
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,561
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Bozza said:
I must admit, I find this a slightly strange one to triumph in the way you have.
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I'm not "triumphing" anything, I'm taking the piss out of the whingers

Sorry I thought that was clearly more obvious than it was
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,025
Giraffe said:
The rumoured increase in CGT is a growth killer. I meet SME business owners on a daily basis. In the last few weeks they have been universally appalled by what the Government are saying and very fearful for their future. They feel they are being attacked on all fronts. Many have run their business for 20-30 years, employing people, generating PAYE/NI/VAT for the government, paying corporation tax. A lot of them have sacrificed everything including their own take home money to grow their business in the knowledge they were growing their asset and the tax benefits of selling this asset are currently favourable - it encourages them to grow the business and reinvest in the business. As it seems that the favourable CGT landscape is about to change they feel totally betrayed. Their business is their pension.

There is also an additional point here. Surveys show that business owners that sell their business go on to start a new business often with the same success. If they are taxed more that means less available funds for new business start ups. A circle that again spirals into less growth. I really don't think the Government have thought this through and I fear unemployment will rise as a result.

Additionally the increase in ERs NI will hit the employees and potentially result in increased unemployment. The SME owners may take this hit themselves, or look to reduce costs elsewhere, less staff wages, or increase prices. None of that is great. However the real impact will be seen by the big corporates. They have to maintain profit levels, that's in built in the plc and private equity model. As a result they have to either cut costs to pay for the extra Ers NI burden or increase prices. The former leads to wage deflation or more unemployment, the latter to increased inflation. Neither is good.
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we'll see how serious they are about investment and growth by CGT changes. the rumoured alignment with income tax will kill investment imo, a 5% rise might get away with - i'm expecting something on CGT either way. it's easy target for those who perceive it as unearned, that overlooks the risk and effort to grow real economic output along the way.
 














B

bazbha

Active member
Mar 18, 2011
309
Hailsham
Guinness Boy said:
It's not clear at all. Pay per mile surely refers to bus journeys. How would you honestly measure it in a car? Hand in your mileage??
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It was perfectly clear I was referring to road tax and fuel duty. The bus cap was a separate point. Obviously not a tax. If this Government are on the side of working people you would think they would find the money to extend it though. There was plenty of money for them to throw about elsewhere. Train drivers pay rises being one example.
 


D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,633
Giraffe said:
Additionally the increase in ERs NI will hit the employees and potentially result in increased unemployment. The SME owners may take this hit themselves, or look to reduce costs elsewhere, less staff wages, or increase prices. None of that is great. However the real impact will be seen by the big corporates. They have to maintain profit levels, that's in built in the plc and private equity model. As a result they have to either cut costs to pay for the extra Ers NI burden or increase prices. The former leads to wage deflation or more unemployment, the latter to increased inflation. Neither is good.
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Look on the bright side. If employees' NIC had been increased, it would have affected private sector and public sector employees alike. By putting on employer's NIC, only private sector employees will suffer; public sector workers will be unaffected.
 


Giraffe

Giraffe

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Helpful Moderator
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Aug 8, 2005
27,237
Fair play the CGT rise is reasonable and sensible. Proportionate. :clap2:

Ers NI though will inevitably hit jobs. Just depends if growth is significant enough to mitigate it.
 






D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,633
One thing that shows how governments in general miss the point. She says that she will appoint thousands of new house planning officers to help build new homes. doesn't she realise that housing planning officers function is to stop house building? She would get far better results by sacking thousands of planning officers and making them concentrate on only the most egregious.
 


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