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[Politics] Small boats, smashing the criminal gangs and the UK job market



Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,289
Back in Sussex
An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​
In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​
It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?
 






Dec 29, 2011
8,204
If one legitimate person signs up to Uber eats, anyone can then hope on their account and run the food from restaurant to house. There are probably other examples of this, but it's very hard to police. (Admittedly, I'm not sure how this can be worse in the UK than any other European country).
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,015
if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,501
if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.
How will our creaking infrastructure handle that? The NHS is stretched to breaking point with resident UK citizens alone
 




Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,770
Fiveways
if they aren't coming here for work, they aren't concerned about that, right?

smashing the gangs will be about as successful as the war on drugs. and likewise, solution to the problem of criminals involvement is to remove them, by allow migrants in without restriction.
I often struggle with your logic but, as to your first question/statement, I think they are coming for work but often also for other complementary reasons such as asylum, sanctuary. What I don't think they're coming for is to take advantage of the UK's benefits system.
I agree with your second sentence. As to your third, all refugees and migrants should be processed according to (international and, within that, domestic) law swiftly -- which will have the effect of 'stop[ping] the boats'. But many politicians don't want this issue to go away because, if it does, then they'll have to focus on something else.
 




RandyWanger

Je suis rôti de boeuf
Mar 14, 2013
6,708
Done a Frexit, now in London
How many on here do cash in hand jobs or are willing to pay someone cash? It'll be similar, where every they're from, there will be a community of them already over here and they'll be happy to work and pay using cash.
It'll be a selling point for a CBDC
 




cjd

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2006
6,307
La Rochelle
An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​
In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​
It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?
Most definitely easier than it is in France.
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
Very good article :thumbsup:

I know that we weren't recording any arrivals or departures in the UK a few years back which was why, although we weren't in Schengen, Britain decided unilaterally to allow completely free movement by not recording anyone, (and nothing has been put in place since). As a result, we don't have any record of who is in the UK at any time. Interestingly, the biggest single reason for people living and working illegally in the UK is overstaying visas, not channel crossings.

All of this creates and supports an unregulated job market, which is then seen as a good reason to come to the UK if you can't get asylum (or an asylum case processed) or the aforementioned visas.

If we are really going to address this, I believe we will need ID cards and to record all comings and goings in the UK, something that has been raised many times by many people on NSC over the years. If people want to 'control our borders' it is, and always has been, the only solution :shrug:
 
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nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,534
nowhere near Burgess Hill
I often struggle with your logic but, as to your first question/statement, I think they are coming for work but often also for other complementary reasons such as asylum, sanctuary. What I don't think they're coming for is to take advantage of the UK's benefits system.
I agree with your second sentence. As to your third, all refugees and migrants should be processed according to (international and, within that, domestic) law swiftly -- which will have the effect of 'stop[ping] the boats'. But many politicians don't want this issue to go away because, if it does, then they'll have to focus on something else.
On that 3rd point, when you get past the dickhead racists then the genuine underlying concern I think is not one of genuine asylum seekers but those who come for economic reasons with no documentation. For me, to allow these people in and then let loose on the streets when they could be anyone and with no idea of previous history is a serious risk. Processing quickly and removing will be great if it ever really happens but what to do with the Syrians/Afghans or any other country we can't actually return people to if they fail. Similarly and I think something that would placate the majority of people would be to deport ANY foreign national guilty of a certain level of crime (I'd personally say any crime but that's just me).
 




Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
An interesting view from France on the BBC reflecting on yesterday's tragedy in the Channel, where it's felt that "smashing the criminal gangs" won't solve the problem of small boat crossings, which is due to the pull of the UK's poorly-regulated employment market...

"He did condemn the smugglers, but most of his comments focused on the lure of what he views as Britain’s loosely regulated job market, that acts like a magnet, drawing young Eritreans, determined Sudanese, Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis to this coastline, convinced that they if they can just make it across this last, short stretch of water - or even half way across - they’ll end up in a country where they can find work, even without the right paperwork.​
In doing so, he touched on a widely-held belief here in France, which is that however much effort is put into tackling the smuggling gangs it will never be enough. That this is a crisis fuelled by the demands of tens of thousands of determined migrants, rather than by the profit-seeking motives of a loose network of criminals."​
It's not a perspective I've read before. Is it easier to get work in the UK, without proper credentials, than in other countries?
Yes it is easier, and it's definitely a draw for some. Dodgy employers you see.

 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,526
The arse end of Hangleton
I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement. There's endless stories of restaurants, owned by 'those not from here', ignoring the requirement to prove you can work in the UK short of making every employer apply to a government department to check if a potential employee has the right to work here I'm not sure there is much that be can done.

It's a bit rich of a French Minister to make those comments as the French have exactly the same problem - mainly in the cities in the south.
 






CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 27, 2009
6,230
Shoreham Beach
This is worth a listen on BBC Sounds unless you are one of those anti-BBC types in which case you won't be interested anyway.

To Catch A Scorpion

The dramatic hunt for one of Europe's most-wanted people smugglers, recorded as it unfolds. BBC journalist, Sue Mitchell, and ex-soldier and aid worker, Rob Lawrie, go on a search for a crime boss: a people smuggler on the run, whose codename is Scorpion. He is one of the central characters controlling the transport of migrants from the European mainland into the UK.
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,885
Almería
I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement. There's endless stories of restaurants, owned by 'those not from here', ignoring the requirement to prove you can work in the UK short of making every employer apply to a government department to check if a potential employee has the right to work here I'm not sure there is much that be can done.

It's a bit rich of a French Minister to make those comments as the French have exactly the same problem - mainly in the cities in the south.

eg. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...a-illegal-work-visa-home-office-b1174261.html
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,767
I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

Freedom of speech is still alive, well and thriving

Hate speech is still illegal, being pissed isn't a great defence

Hope this helps :thumbsup:
 


Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,885
Almería
I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..

I trust no NSCer is up for inciting a riot or calling for attacks on foreigners.
 




A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,538
Deepest, darkest Sussex
I don't think the issue is poor regulation - just poor enforcement.
And a large part of that will be down to the hollowing out of the public sector institutions that would be expected to police these things by the last 14 years of austerity.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,201
I suggest you consider closing this thread..

As a non voter I've noticed too much anger on either side and it could take one drunk keyboard warrior to say something stupid on this thread that would end them up in prison.

Freedom of speech is no more..
You are suggesting closing the thread to stop people expressing their ideas because hypothetically a poster might get drunk and engage in hate speech.

Then you are lamenting the passion of free speech... Despite calling for people's free speech to be limited... In the same post.
 


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