Phat Baz 68
Get a ****ing life mate !
- Apr 16, 2011
- 5,026
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You're the ref. What's your decision?
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HaWould have been 30 years ago, after the two players had been sent off for the ensuing punch up!
Tough call... It's a 50/50 ball to be won. The player that goes in to win it normally ends up in bother these days. Harsh sending off for me.
tgretton87
Shoreham Beach Seagull#2
- Jul 30, 2011
- 691
f***ing hell its a tough tackle well be giving yellows and reds for shou;der barges next. And before anyone asks I had my fibula broken by a 2 footed tackle he won the ball then went through me I dont blame the guy who did it ball was there to be won.
The ref should have just given em a talking to it was a scouse manc derby if neither of them had gone for that tackle they would have been lambasted by there own fans. Get stuck in!
The ref should have just given em a talking to it was a scouse manc derby if neither of them had gone for that tackle they would have been lambasted by there own fans. Get stuck in!
super-seagulls
Soup! Why didn’t I get any Soup?
Red card for both.
These days the refs will give red cards for tackles that are considered dangerous.
Neither player won the ball but it doesn't matter whether you win the ball or not, if the tackle is dangerous and both feet leave the floor, you will see red.
These days the refs will give red cards for tackles that are considered dangerous.
Neither player won the ball but it doesn't matter whether you win the ball or not, if the tackle is dangerous and both feet leave the floor, you will see red.
tgretton87
Shoreham Beach Seagull#2
- Jul 30, 2011
- 691
Also Shelvey has gone on side footed and won the ball if Evans catches him thats a leg breaker. I wish there was a vote a talking to would have sufficed
tgretton87
Shoreham Beach Seagull#2
- Jul 30, 2011
- 691
Ninja Elephant
Doctor Elephant
- Feb 16, 2009
- 18,855
I would book the both of them and get on with the game. Naughty challenge by them both, same punishment for me. Shelvey made contact, but it could easily have been Evans. Either way, the bald moron deserved red for his reaction.
pwlr1966
Active member
- Aug 7, 2011
- 271
In this instance, even though Evans went in with studs raised on both feet, he did not use excessive force, his feet were partially off the ground unlike Shelvey's, who went in with excessive force and studs showing, it's either just a red for Shelvey or a red for Shelvey and a yellow for Evans, just my opinion
He Shot He Scored
New member
- Jan 25, 2010
- 33
Similar to the Ashley Barnes red card v Burnley. The wrong player went that day, and I think the same here, although admittedly the pictures in the thread is the only one I've seen and you really need to see it at full speed to judge it. Shelvey gets his foot behind the ball and wins it. He is off the ground for a moment, but the Manc is most definitely off the ground two footed.
Ninja Elephant
Doctor Elephant
- Feb 16, 2009
- 18,855
I understand your opinion, but I disagree because he's not in control of the challenge and if Shelvey times his own lunge worse than he did, he would have come out of that badly. It's one of those tackles that he who gets hurt will get away with it. I don't think you can differentiate between the two because Shelvey got in there first rather than Evans. But I didn't even notice the Evans side of the challenge until Brendan Rodgers pointed it out.
If you asked Mark Halsey today what he would give, I wonder if he's changed his mind.
For me, the problem with giving a red for Evans, is that by comparison to Shelvey's it doesn't seem so bad.
Shelvey's is a red all day long. Clearly leaves the ground, it's not like there's a brief moment where both feet are off and you have to go frame by frame to see it, he clearly jumps off the ground. His leading leg go studs first into Evans' lower leg, and as shelvey turns with his challenge, he ends up forcing Evans' other lower leg under him. It doesn't matter who touched how much of the ball when. Shelvey's lunge was reckless and I think it was quite hotheaded. He had just talked through the back of Giggs, lost control of the ball (if he ever had control) and jumped in, seriously risking Evans' safety.
How anyone can say that it is not, in today's game, a red card just doesn't understand the what the current laws and authority attitudes are. It's not about banning tackles or making the sport non-contact, it's about the game developing into one of skill and finesse and needing to protect players from themselves and each other. Don't complain because you can't slide in without due care and attention taking everything out and hope you get the ball first, instead, try developing your ability to read the game, to steal the ball with technique
With evans, when you compare it to Shelvey's he doesn't leave the ground as clearly, his feet are more together and it seems some how more controlled, so it feels weird to say he should have a red too. However, he does lunge in, he does show studs. He too should see red.
Gary Neville said both challenges probably should be red card offences, but that since they are both english and grew up with that style of football, and because they both lunged in they should have just got a yellow each.
It's that kind of attitude that makes refereeing so hard to do to please people. Speaking more generically and not about this specific incident, but how can you claim to want consistency from referees, while also asking for their to be exceptions when applying laws - don't book this guy for something anyone else would be booked for because it means he'd be sent off or miss a final or because it's a derby game etc.? You either want consistency, in which case some times decisions may upset and "kill the game" or mean someone doesn't get to play in a final or has that last minute promotion winning goal memory marred with a caution, or just shut up about consistency.
Shelvey's is a red all day long. Clearly leaves the ground, it's not like there's a brief moment where both feet are off and you have to go frame by frame to see it, he clearly jumps off the ground. His leading leg go studs first into Evans' lower leg, and as shelvey turns with his challenge, he ends up forcing Evans' other lower leg under him. It doesn't matter who touched how much of the ball when. Shelvey's lunge was reckless and I think it was quite hotheaded. He had just talked through the back of Giggs, lost control of the ball (if he ever had control) and jumped in, seriously risking Evans' safety.
How anyone can say that it is not, in today's game, a red card just doesn't understand the what the current laws and authority attitudes are. It's not about banning tackles or making the sport non-contact, it's about the game developing into one of skill and finesse and needing to protect players from themselves and each other. Don't complain because you can't slide in without due care and attention taking everything out and hope you get the ball first, instead, try developing your ability to read the game, to steal the ball with technique
With evans, when you compare it to Shelvey's he doesn't leave the ground as clearly, his feet are more together and it seems some how more controlled, so it feels weird to say he should have a red too. However, he does lunge in, he does show studs. He too should see red.
Gary Neville said both challenges probably should be red card offences, but that since they are both english and grew up with that style of football, and because they both lunged in they should have just got a yellow each.
It's that kind of attitude that makes refereeing so hard to do to please people. Speaking more generically and not about this specific incident, but how can you claim to want consistency from referees, while also asking for their to be exceptions when applying laws - don't book this guy for something anyone else would be booked for because it means he'd be sent off or miss a final or because it's a derby game etc.? You either want consistency, in which case some times decisions may upset and "kill the game" or mean someone doesn't get to play in a final or has that last minute promotion winning goal memory marred with a caution, or just shut up about consistency.
red all night long. evans wins the ball shelvey un controlled lunge. both players off the ground at some stage but evans lead foot wins the ball going away from shelvey while shevey loses ball battle and into evans. hope that clears it up for you all, i only needed about half an hour to come to that conclusion. who would b a ref!
The Camel
Well-known member
At normal speed when watching the game, I agreed with the ref's decision.
In slow motion, 2 yellows seem like the perfect cop out.
In slow motion, 2 yellows seem like the perfect cop out.
SeagullSongs
And it's all gone quiet..
I observed:
Shelvey leaves the ground. Evans leaves the ground.
Shelvey goes in with legs apart and one leg catches Evans slightly with his studs.
Evans goes in with two feet close together.
Shelvey has one foot on the ground when he makes contact with Evans. Evans has both feet off the ground.
I think it makes no difference that Evans is injured by the challenge, his tackle was worse.
Evans RED, Shelvey YELLOW and a final warning.
In my opinion.
Shelvey leaves the ground. Evans leaves the ground.
Shelvey goes in with legs apart and one leg catches Evans slightly with his studs.
Evans goes in with two feet close together.
Shelvey has one foot on the ground when he makes contact with Evans. Evans has both feet off the ground.
I think it makes no difference that Evans is injured by the challenge, his tackle was worse.
Evans RED, Shelvey YELLOW and a final warning.
In my opinion.
DumLum
Well-known member
Watching the challenge at full speed on Sunday my initial reaction was that Evans should have seen red and that the ref made his decision based on the fact Evans was the one rolling around in agony.
I now have watched it over and over again and can understand the red card more now. I still think Evans should have gone also.
Ref was perfectly placed to make an incredibly hard descion.
I'm pretty decisive about things I see on the football pitch after seeing them in slow motion but not this time. Good poll from the OP.
I now have watched it over and over again and can understand the red card more now. I still think Evans should have gone also.
Ref was perfectly placed to make an incredibly hard descion.
I'm pretty decisive about things I see on the football pitch after seeing them in slow motion but not this time. Good poll from the OP.
KingKev
Well-known member
Evans yellow minimum, Shelvey nothing. Can't see what he did wrong. He's in control, not over stretching (hence plays the ball with his instep) studs aren't showing to opponent and would have stayed on his feet had he not been caught by evans' 2 footed lunge.
I might add that having lived up there for 11 years I am no friend of Red Scouse, and have enjoyed yet more examples of their balanced reasoning (chip on both shoulders) since Sunday. However I think this was an appalling, match changing decision. If that was a red card then there should not be a game in the Championship this year that ends with more than 19 players on the pitch.
I might add that having lived up there for 11 years I am no friend of Red Scouse, and have enjoyed yet more examples of their balanced reasoning (chip on both shoulders) since Sunday. However I think this was an appalling, match changing decision. If that was a red card then there should not be a game in the Championship this year that ends with more than 19 players on the pitch.