[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[METALMICKY]

And don't forget all those young Asian footballers, gay footballers etc etc. This is absolutely not just a cricket problem.

The whole question of why clubs like Wolves, Villa, Birmingham etc have not had a history of Asian players is an interesting topic. However, I'm not convinced you can so easily attribute that to institutional racism within the football league pyramid and in respect of the football league clubs. The answer is maybe far less insidious and a lot to do with cultural attitudes within the Asian community.

 

[lawros left foot]

Given that I am not one of the gammon crew on here, and folk know it, I feel qualified to make my point here.

There was clearly a strong relationship between the two. I wouldn't use racial slurs as banter, but some younger folk may well between them. That is not for the law to arbitrate.

When I was younger myself and a close friend from Ghana did say stuff to each other that would not be acceptable outwith our relationship. That is no-one else's business.

Unless a child or a person of limited capacity in mental capability, for a person to be a victim they need to consider themselves as such first. Gary seems to suggest that Azeem never saw himself as such at the time and this was consenting dialogue between friends.

If that was the case, then what happened between them is no-one's business.

As for the other claims, can't comment. I know nothing of them.

On the subject of ‘banter’ between friends, I may be able to throw some light on it.

My parents fostered 3 Asian children in the 60s, 2 girls, 1 boy. This was a long term foster and they all stayed with us until marriage. Tony was a good bloke, he served 10 years in the Navy, and you’d think that the racism he experienced in a small Sussex country village ( there was a lot) and in the RN was water off a ducks back,but it really wasn’t. I did ask him a few years before his death how it didn’t seem to bother him at all, when I used to get furious with the abuse that the people I regarded as brother and sisters got. I remember his answer so clearly, basically he knew the more he reacted the worse it would get, so he didn’t give the racists the pleasure of upsetting him.
He did used to get upset, I remember him crying as a 10 year old because the other boys called him a black *******, his nickname in the Navy was Choco, he hated it , but knew that racists are bullies and the more he kicked off the worse it would be.

He just accepted the “friendly banter” because, if he didn’t, it would get worse.

I do miss him.

 

[carlzeiss]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...be-Kevin-slur-Azeem-Rafiq-claim.html#comments

ECB vow to launch probe into 'Kevin' slur after Azeem Rafiq claimed Yorkshire and England cricketers used the name to abuse people from black and Asian backgrounds... with Alex Hales alleged to have given his black dog the name because of it

 

[Change at Barnham]

This is a thought provoking piece from Jonathan Liew which highlights what Rafiq is up against....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/16/azeem-rafiqs-testimony-exposes-how-power-works-in-cricket-and-in-britain

 

[fisons]

This is a thought provoking piece from Jonathan Liew which highlights what Rafiq is up against....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/16/azeem-rafiqs-testimony-exposes-how-power-works-in-cricket-and-in-britain

Thanks for sharing this excellent piece CAB.

George Dobell who has just joined The Cricketer from CricInfo is doing his absolute best to help Rafique be heard and to speak "truth unto power" but as Liew so clearly explains the whole system is completely self-preserving. Lets hope some more brave people stand up to Harrison and his Gang at the ECB.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Indeed, its not a surprise that it's Yorkshire ccc, but the cover up has made it far far worse.

 

[mikeyjh]

This is a thought provoking piece from Jonathan Liew which highlights what Rafiq is up against....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/16/azeem-rafiqs-testimony-exposes-how-power-works-in-cricket-and-in-britain

Thanks - Jonathan Agnew's comments are toe curlingly face palm in the extreme. May as well say they can't be racist cos they have brown people on their team. The likes of him, Vaughan et al have their heads in the arses, cricket is such an old school establishment.

 

[vegster]

Thanks - Jonathan Agnew's comments are toe curlingly face palm in the extreme. May as well say they can't be racist cos they have brown people on their team. The likes of him, Vaughan et al have their heads in the arses, cricket is such an old school establishment.

Things got very messy when Agnew fell out with Jonathan liew regarding discussions of racism a while back. I thought Agnew was lucky to keep his job at the time simply for the choice of language used, would Lineker or Wrighty have responded in such terms if they had a twitter spat ?


" Warning, link contains a very nasty word " !

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/may/13/jonathan-agnew-row-with-journalist-bbc

 

[Change at Barnham]

I was disappointed during the questioning that no one questioned Tom Harrison about his working relationship with Colin Graves at the ECB and their joint working on the introduction of the Hundred competition.
It was an important fact that Graves (former ECB Chairman) controls who Yorkshire employ and he also controls their decision making due to Yorkshire owing the Graves Family Trust £15 million.
Harrison was very unlikely to turn the screw on Grave's Yorkshire.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/yorkshire-ccc-crisis-graves-family-trustees-vetoed-sackings-of-mark-arthur-and-martyn-moxon-3460389

 

[vegster]

This is a thought provoking piece from Jonathan Liew which highlights what Rafiq is up against....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/16/azeem-rafiqs-testimony-exposes-how-power-works-in-cricket-and-in-britain

Very good read, the final four paragraphs show pretty well why this will happen again in some form or another and with other problems such as misogyny and sexual harrasment... " lessons must be learned " is the age old cliché for nothing will change. here are those last four paragraphs.


"And so perhaps the greatest gift Rafiq has given us is to see how power really works in this country. Those with status and influence can simply bend the world to their whim, define truth as they see fit, ignore or trounce anyone who threatens their position. They have capital and goodwill, powerful friends to push their case, safety nets upon safety nets. Rafiq had none of this. He was powerless, penniless and alone. He had no corporate sinecure, no Test caps, no column in the Daily Telegraph, no benefit of the doubt. This is why cricket’s establishment felt empowered to drive him to the brink of suicide rather than reform itself.

This particular case occurred in cricket but frankly it could have happened anywhere: the police, the civil service, the media, an investment bank. A few heads roll, those in power pledge to go on a listening journey and the world moves on.(Damien ) Green lies in public office and still gets to make our laws. Julian Knight, the committee chairman, gets to criticise the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020 and then pontificate about racism on live television in 2021. Accountability is for the little people.

It was possible, while watching the likes of Hutton and Harrison squirm under the committee room lights, to see all this as some sort of vindication or victory for Rafiq, a triumph of truth and justice over obfuscation and malfeasance. In reality, of course, any victory here was purely symbolic.

Rafiq’s cricket career is over. But Gary Ballance still has one, and so do Martyn Moxon and Andrew Gale and Vaughan. Hutton still has his lucrative legal business. Harrison still gets his bonus. The system resets and replenishes. Nature heals."

 

[Titanic]

 

[Eeyore]

On the subject of ‘banter’ between friends, I may be able to throw some light on it.

My parents fostered 3 Asian children in the 60s, 2 girls, 1 boy. This was a long term foster and they all stayed with us until marriage. Tony was a good bloke, he served 10 years in the Navy, and you’d think that the racism he experienced in a small Sussex country village ( there was a lot) and in the RN was water off a ducks back,but it really wasn’t. I did ask him a few years before his death how it didn’t seem to bother him at all, when I used to get furious with the abuse that the people I regarded as brother and sisters got. I remember his answer so clearly, basically he knew the more he reacted the worse it would get, so he didn’t give the racists the pleasure of upsetting him.
He did used to get upset, I remember him crying as a 10 year old because the other boys called him a black *******, his nickname in the Navy was Choco, he hated it , but knew that racists are bullies and the more he kicked off the worse it would be.

He just accepted the “friendly banter” because, if he didn’t, it would get worse.

I do miss him.

Yeah, but that wasn't banter. That was the heartless 60s and 70s.

I remember, when I was 11, playing footie with a group of kids and an adult, one of their dads or some random.

A black person walked by and he turned and hurled a filthy volley of abuse at them for no reason.

I can't walk pass that spot in the park without that venom going right through me still.

 

[mikeyjh]

Things got very messy when Agnew fell out with Jonathan liew regarding discussions of racism a while back. I thought Agnew was lucky to keep his job at the time simply for the choice of language used, would Lineker or Wrighty have responded in such terms if they had a twitter spat ?


" Warning, link contains a very nasty word " !

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/may/13/jonathan-agnew-row-with-journalist-bbc

That one had passed me by, it's just horrible. So easy for a privileged white man to be so angry but it would have been even easier for him to recognise he was wrong. C*nt

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The whole question of why clubs like Wolves, Villa, Birmingham etc have not had a history of Asian players is an interesting topic. However, I'm not convinced you can so easily attribute that to institutional racism within the football league pyramid and in respect of the football league clubs. The answer is maybe far less insidious and a lot to do with cultural attitudes within the Asian community.

That's what I thought till I listened to hours of conversation on R5 yesterday.

It is racism.

Our British Asian compadres tended to keep their heads down more than our British West Indian citizens, meaning there were always too few and too few emboldened to kick back against the lazy casual racism, that seemed like nothing to the entitled white boys, but which hit hard the recipients. That was my take, anyway.

Good to see this being kept on the boil. I sense a sea change that could be transformative.

No wonder Das Reich was carping like he's lost, on another thread, a few days ago. I think he has.

Good.

 

[vegster]

That's what I thought till I listened to hours of conversation on R5 yesterday.

It is racism.

Our British Asian compadres tended to keep their heads down more than our British West Indian citizens, meaning there were always too few and too few emboldened to kick back against the lazy casual racism, that seemed like nothing to the entitled white boys, but which hit hard the recipients. That was my take, anyway.

Good to see this being kept on the boil. I sense a sea change that could be transformative.

No wonder Das Reich was carping like he's lost, on another thread, a few days ago. I think he has.

Good.

I echo your sentiments, sadly I think it's yet another one of those " Lessons need to be learned " episodes. Nothing will change. We have been here so often regarding, racism, sexism, anti-Semitism...The method and the style will change but it will still go on.

 

[dazzer6666]

[tweet]1461058046650691584[/tweet]

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

[tweet]1461058046650691584[/tweet]

Wow, absolutely shocking.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1461058046650691584[/tweet]

That is revolting. I hope the police can trace it.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Thanks - Jonathan Agnew's comments are toe curlingly face palm in the extreme. May as well say they can't be racist cos they have brown people on their team. The likes of him, Vaughan et al have their heads in the arses, cricket is such an old school establishment.

Re Vaughan….guilty until proven innocent? This may swim against the tide but at the moment I’m reserving ‘judgement’

 

[mikeyjh]

Re Vaughan….guilty until proven innocent? This may swim against the tide but at the moment I’m reserving ‘judgement’

You may have a point, I can't stand the bloke so am probably predisposed to think he's acted like a c**t. (© Agnew, J)

More seriously, it is clear that the club that Vaughan was a senior member of had a fairly toxic culture where racist language was par for the course. We also know that those on the receiving end of the alleged comments are far more likely to remember them than those saying them within a culture where that language is considered 'the norm. Bearing all that in mind, I think that Vaughan is just digging himself a hole be being so categoric in his denial - Can he be that sure of something he did or didn't say 12 years ago? I don't think so.

All that said, and kind of to your point, he's f*cked anyway as it's impossible to disprove which, whatever you think of him or the situation, is kind of scary.