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What do you do with a problem like Brown?
- Thread starter Dandyman
- Start date
The people elected Tony Blair's Labour Party, not Gordon Brown's Labour Party, even before the recent economic crisis, Gordon Brown's Labour lost seats that came up for election, showing people didn't want Gordon Brown's labour party and that has just been exacerbated by the recent financial catastrophe.
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Did the Party choose him? Or did he force his way into the potion?
Tweeter Man
Tatchell is a pompous twit and a cake boy and I would not ride in a chariot with him.
Tatchell is a pompous twit and a cake boy and I would not ride in a chariot with him.
Sonic The Hedgehog
Oi Lino You're A Disgrace
I can see your point, but I can't think of a recent precedent where a General Election has been called just because the leader of the ruling party has changed (I'm thinking Thatcher to Major and Wilson to Callaghan)
I think the leader is chosen by sitting MPs. Due to the way the rules were written for the election (nominees had to be supported by a certain percentage of MPs), I think he was the only candidate. Would rather have seen a proper electiion myself.
I rather suspect this will all be irrelevant by this time next year.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Whether he is or not, I think most of his suggestions on his list, such as a Bill of Rights, Written Constitution and electoral reform, are worthy of consideration.
Greens
So do I with slight amendments. Tatchell is just the Messenger Boy. Who is the Greens Chief Whip?
So do I with slight amendments. Tatchell is just the Messenger Boy. Who is the Greens Chief Whip?
We have a written Constiution.
Its the written Laws of the land that is our constituion. Which is why the system works well. In America, they cannot bans guns for example, becasue its written in thier constitution. Our consitution can be changed.
Electoral reform im not sure about. I think the party with the most votes should win. If we have PR we will end up like Italy and have a week Government that changes every 5 mins.
Here's what he should do (some of which have already been mentioned)
1 Scrap ID cards and Trident 2
2 Pass a law forbidding any company from paying its highest earner more than 10 times its lowest earner
3 Regulate the bejesus out of hedge funds and tax havens (using our alleged Special Relationship with Obama to ensure this is global) to make sure everyone pays the going tax rate (however that's defined)
4 Introduce a properly representative voting system (whether it be AV, PR, STV or a comibination)
5 Introduce an elected upper chamber
6 Fund political parties from public purse. Ban political donations and lobbying.
7 Set up a fully independent cross-party body which takes long-term strategic planning decisions for the whole country, such as public transport provision, energy policy, airports planning etc and whose decisions would have to be implemented by the Government of the day. Think 20 years ahead, not just to the next election.
8 Move Christmas to late January. It comes too early in the Winter and then we have those bleak depressing long winter months with nothing to look forward to. Also it's more likely to snow at Christmas then.
9 Set a date from which the UK will withold all payments to the EU until it is financially transparent.
10 Abolish the charitable status of private schools and spend the extra money on state schools.
1 Scrap ID cards and Trident 2
2 Pass a law forbidding any company from paying its highest earner more than 10 times its lowest earner
3 Regulate the bejesus out of hedge funds and tax havens (using our alleged Special Relationship with Obama to ensure this is global) to make sure everyone pays the going tax rate (however that's defined)
4 Introduce a properly representative voting system (whether it be AV, PR, STV or a comibination)
5 Introduce an elected upper chamber
6 Fund political parties from public purse. Ban political donations and lobbying.
7 Set up a fully independent cross-party body which takes long-term strategic planning decisions for the whole country, such as public transport provision, energy policy, airports planning etc and whose decisions would have to be implemented by the Government of the day. Think 20 years ahead, not just to the next election.
8 Move Christmas to late January. It comes too early in the Winter and then we have those bleak depressing long winter months with nothing to look forward to. Also it's more likely to snow at Christmas then.
9 Set a date from which the UK will withold all payments to the EU until it is financially transparent.
10 Abolish the charitable status of private schools and spend the extra money on state schools.
acrossthepond
Active member
You can argue that, but the problem is that the rights of the people are not inviolate (and bear in mind we are subjects, not citizens). The Govt via Parliament can trample all over them.
The constitution of the US can be changed, but the process of amendment is tortuous. In the UK, a simple majority in Parliament is enough to compromise your rights - ie the updated anti-terror laws.
Electoral reform should be about how the people are represented in the legislative body. At the moment, I don't feel that the majority of MPs represent or are representative of the general population. I'd support changes that create a tighter link between the two. But no electoral system is perfect, and we should not expect to eradicate venality through our choice of electoral system.
drew
Drew
I don't agree with Acker's point about electing Blair's labour party. It was well know that Blair would step down, it was just a matter of time so most people knew Brown would be PM in the lifetime of the government.
As for electing a leader, I think it is the labour party/NEC that votes for a new leader, not just the sitting MPs. Obviously there would only be a vote if there is a challenger to Brown or if he resigns. Any challenger would have to be an MP otherwise they couldn't sit in the house of commons.
Some good ideas, but, I'd leave Xmas were it is but fix easter. Why is it we know the date a baby was born on but not the date the guy that caused a stir amongst the Romans was executed!! Strikes me as odd.
I quite like rule 3 as well. Those bastards have got away with murder.
As I remember it, Blair promised to see out this term before stepping down. It was merely rumours that Brown would take over, and during this term Brown manipulated Blairs stepping down.
drew
Drew
Blair was an MP, what he says and what he does are two different things. Besides. thought a lot of political commentators at the time thought he would go before the end of the next parliament even before the election took place.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
I think Gordon Brown needs to declare that New Labour is dead, and hold a set of interviews about what the project achieved and what it didn't achieve. And be brutally frank about it.
In the space that is available, he can speculate about electoral reform and other possibilities for Britain. But unless he creates the space first, no one is going to listen.
In the space that is available, he can speculate about electoral reform and other possibilities for Britain. But unless he creates the space first, no one is going to listen.
acrossthepond
Active member
This would take more courage than Brown has...
Southover Street Seagull
Well-known member
Since when have we lost the war in Iraq?
acrossthepond
Active member
1914-15?
Southover Street Seagull
Well-known member
We lost the Gallipoli campaign but we didn't actually lose the First World war in the Middle East did we?
acrossthepond
Active member
Got our arses kicked in what became Iraq in 1914-15. Our army surrendered to the Ottomans.
Of course we went back in in 1917 and took the place over
Of course we went back in in 1917 and took the place over