[Football] We only want a point against the Czech Republic

[Weststander]

Modric was completely ineffective against England, and Fernandes was shockingly poor in the Portugal - Germany game.

Contrary to popular belief other teams' players do sometimes underperform, too!

I thought 35 year old Modric was surrounded by mediocrity. But what a brilliant career. England couldn’t live with him three years ago, sadly.

 

[Jim in the West]

Watching Wales and Scotland it is pretty obvious their managers have a bit of tactical know-how. But watching England is SO frustrating because tactically we often don't seem to know what to do. Why were we so scared of Scotland? A team who hardly know how to score, yet we play 4 at the back with 2 holding midfielders. The full backs must clearly have been told not to do anything remotely adventurous (especially Reece James, who I believe managed just 4 forward passes all game). So we leave a HUGE hole in central midfield - enabling a 20 year old (making his full debut) to run the show for the opposition!!!

We all thought Southgate had played a blinder for the Croatia match, but it turns out (after their game vs Czech Republic) that Croatia aren't really that good!

I think Southgate is a very decent guy, and we all know that the England manager's job is a nightmare - but surely SOMEONE in the England set up must have some tactical understanding? I see Graeme Jones is part of the set-up for the Euros, and he has a decent reputation as a coach, I understand. However, apart from being ultra-conservative, I'm unsure what brand of football England wants to play? When you look at other national teams - and indeed pretty much every team in the Premier League - you know what they are trying to achieve. With England, I'm not sure.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I've got Southgate pegged as the English version of Solskjaer. Nice guy, talks well, inoffensive, good with youth and creating a team spirit but tactically poor and unable to influence matches once they've kicked off.

 

[Arthur]

Is there a online wall chart anywhere that is updated as the tournament progresses?

Marca (I think) used to do an awesome one for major tournaments but just had a look on their site and doesn't look like they've done one this time.

 

[Ecosse Exile]

You do have the players, but you also have some highly overhyped ones, and a clueless manager who listens to the hype unfortunately. He was out-thought by Clarke on Friday, Clarke is a good experienced manager, not a great one but far better than Southgate IN MY OPINION.

For me, Maguire and Henderson dont make the squad, if you're not fit to start, you dont go, even once they are fit to last 90 minutes they still aren't going to be match fit for probablty two games, at this level, you can't carry passengers for one game, never mind two.

Declan Rice and Phillips are over hyped, they are nowhere near good enough for England, but i do appreciate England are short of quality defensive midfielders, so take one of them, as cover for Bellingham who looks a far better player than either, and he should have taken Ward Prowse and the most in-form player in the country, Jesse Lingard instead of Henderson.

In defence, well i don't need to tell anyone here really, Mings has done well against a distictly average at best Croatian team and a Scottish strike force that most of you wouldn't want at Brighton. Well done Tyrone, absolute rock of a defender! He should be on a beach somewhere enjoying his summer, so thats two of your centre backs that shouldn't be there, you can take your pick from Dunk, Webster, Mee, Tarkowski and Konsa, all are better than Mings.

Up front you've got Kane, no i'm not saying he shouldn't be there, of course he should, but he looks knackered to me, it's up to the manager to assess that in training, Kane has, like everyone, had a hard couple of seasons, but he has had a few injuries too, i get that at his best, he plays every game, but he's clearly a long way short of his best, or fittest, so give him a rest, play Calvert Lewin, he must be chomping at the bit.

Anyway enough about the Waistcoats selection errors (being polite), you still have a wonderful selection of attacking talent in the squad, who absolutely walk into most of the other squads, play to your strengths, you are capable of beating any country in this competition, if you do, might need a bit of luck with the French but i haven't seen anyone else you should fear, Italy have looked good, as did the Germans against Portugal and the Belgians after they brought De Bruyne and Hazard on, all of those sides are playing to their attacking strengths though.

With the players England have available i think they should play a back 3, this means you only need one def midfielder and allows the wingbacks to create overloads going forward.

5-1-3-1
Pickford
Trippier, White, Stones, Coady, Chillwell
Bellingham
Foden, Mount, Grealish
DCL

People will say i'm only playing White because he is Brighton, but White gives you an extra option to support Bellingham in the middle and is also exceptional carrying the ball forward and has a good eye for a pass too.

On the bench you would still have the likes of Sancho and even Sterling and Kane to come on when players are tiring.

Lastly, apologies for sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but the mis-management by Gareth Southgate really does annoy me.

 

[Weststander]

You do have the players, but you also have some highly overhyped ones, and a clueless manager who listens to the hype unfortunately. He was out-thought by Clarke on Friday, Clarke is a good experienced manager, not a great one but far better than Southgate IN MY OPINION.

For me, Maguire and Henderson dont make the squad, if you're not fit to start, you dont go, even once they are fit to last 90 minutes they still aren't going to be match fit for probablty two games, at this level, you can't carry passengers for one game, never mind two.

Declan Rice and Phillips are over hyped, they are nowhere near good enough for England, but i do appreciate England are short of quality defensive midfielders, so take one of them, as cover for Bellingham who looks a far better player than either, and he should have taken Ward Prowse and the most in-form player in the country, Jesse Lingard instead of Henderson.

In defence, well i don't need to tell anyone here really, Mings has done well against a distictly average at best Croatian team and a Scottish strike force that most of you wouldn't want at Brighton. Well done Tyrone, absolute rock of a defender! He should be on a beach somewhere enjoying his summer, so thats two of your centre backs that shouldn't be there, you can take your pick from Dunk, Webster, Mee, Tarkowski and Konsa, all are better than Mings.

Up front you've got Kane, no i'm not saying he shouldn't be there, of course he should, but he looks knackered to me, it's up to the manager to assess that in training, Kane has, like everyone, had a hard couple of seasons, but he has had a few injuries too, i get that at his best, he plays every game, but he's clearly a long way short of his best, or fittest, so give him a rest, play Calvert Lewin, he must be chomping at the bit.

Anyway enough about the Waistcoats selection errors (being polite), you still have a wonderful selection of attacking talent in the squad, who absolutely walk into most of the other squads, play to your strengths, you are capable of beating any country in this competition, if you do, might need a bit of luck with the French but i haven't seen anyone else you should fear, Italy have looked good, as did the Germans against Portugal and the Belgians after they brought De Bruyne and Hazard on, all of those sides are playing to their attacking strengths though.

With the players England have available i think they should play a back 3, this means you only need one def midfielder and allows the wingbacks to create overloads going forward.

5-1-3-1
Pickford
Trippier, White, Stones, Coady, Chillwell
Bellingham
Foden, Mount, Grealish
DCL

People will say i'm only playing White because he is Brighton, but White gives you an extra option to support Bellingham in the middle and is also exceptional carrying the ball forward and has a good eye for a pass too.

On the bench you would still have the likes of Sancho and even Sterling and Kane to come on when players are tiring.

Lastly, apologies for sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but the mis-management by Gareth Southgate really does annoy me.

Henderson is fit.

Southgate obviously sees Rice as the boss.

 

[Ecosse Exile]

Henderson is fit.

Southgate obviously sees Rice as the boss.

Yes, he played 45 mins in a warm up game, but that's a long way from 90 minutes in a competative game against some of the best midfielders in Europe, and that was his only 45 mins since January is it? I wouldn't risk him personally, i like him, when he is 100% fit, he's not.

 

[Weststander]

Yes, he played 45 mins in a warm up game, but that's a long way from 90 minutes in a competative game against some of the best midfielders in Europe, and that was his only 45 mins since January is it? I wouldn't risk him personally, i like him, when he is 100% fit, he's not.

If he played 45 minutes a few weeks ago .... very well, he help changed the game, he's trained well since (no bad news given to the media about that), then he's ready to start imho.

I simply think Southgate sees Rice as the midfield man to bring England home the trophy.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If he played 45 minutes a few weeks ago .... very well, he help changed the game, he's trained well since (no bad news given to the media about that), then he's ready to start imho.

I simply think Southgate sees Rice as the midfield man to bring England home the trophy.

Nonsense is Henderson close to fit enough to be starting games. He's played something like six times in a YEAR!

He played 45 minutes in a low key friendly, and looked like he could barely move.

Shambles.

 

[Weststander]

Nonsense is Henderson close to fit enough to be starting games. He's played something like six times in a YEAR!

He played 45 minutes in a low key friendly, and looked like he could barely move.

Shambles.

Rice was, the game passed him by. Our CM outfought and out-thought for the entire game.

Henderson was on the bench, an option for GS, who bizarrely stuck with the ineffective formula for 90 minutes.

 

[Brovion]

As this has become a slightly more generic 'Southgate' thread I'll add my twopennyworth as well: Southgate has done a lot right. I think the culture in the England squad is as good as it's ever been, whether that's dealing with racism, the media, squad discipline, mental health, or just stopping cliques from forming. He is really good at almost all aspects of football management except one: he's a truly lousy coach.

And yes I do hope that comment gets shoved down my throat. Not winning I can accept, piss-poor tactics and crap selections I can't.

 

[vagabond]

I've got Southgate pegged as the English version of Solskjaer. Nice guy, talks well, inoffensive, good with youth and creating a team spirit but tactically poor and unable to influence matches once they've kicked off.

That’s actually a brilliant comparison.

- great statesman
- great dealing with politics, public statements
- fantastic with young players
- prior to the role hasn’t really proved himself as a manager
- criticised for big game management and tactically questionable

But to be fair I still go by results. Southgate for all his flaws got us to the World Cup semi’s, I don’t care about how easy our route was. We’ve been eliminated by Iceland before ffs.

And currently played shocking, but 4pts and yet to concede a goal. I will judge Southgate and England’s progression once they’re eliminated from the tournament.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

That’s actually a brilliant comparison.

- great statesman
- great dealing with politics, public statements
- fantastic with young players
- prior to the role hasn’t really proved himself as a manager
- criticised for big game management and tactically questionable

But to be fair I still go by results. Southgate for all his flaws got us to the World Cup semi’s,

There's another similarity: both love losing a semi final!

 

[chaileyjem]

Southgate has taken us to semi finals in the world cup, third in the Nations League - beating Spain and Croatia on the way, and qualification for the Euros with ease.
We're so far P3 W3 in our World Cup 2022 qualification group.
and already in last 16 for the Euros with one game left to play and unbeaten/no goals conceded.

I'll save the post mortems for a few weeks yet...

 

[Sheebo]

Southgate has taken us to semi finals in the world cup, third in the Nations League - beating Spain and Croatia on the way, and qualification for the Euros with ease.
We're so far P3 W3 in our World Cup 2022 qualification group.
and already in last 16 for the Euros with one game left to play and unbeaten/no goals conceded.

I'll save the post mortems for a few weeks yet...

Yep. He’s done really well. Not the best manager but has surprised many. I don’t get why people feel the need to have the knives out for him tbh - as soon as there’s any ‘bad’ result - which in this case was a draw! Short memories I feel.

 

[FatSuperman]

Southgate has taken us to semi finals in the world cup, third in the Nations League - beating Spain and Croatia on the way, and qualification for the Euros with ease.
We're so far P3 W3 in our World Cup 2022 qualification group.
and already in last 16 for the Euros with one game left to play and unbeaten/no goals conceded.

I'll save the post mortems for a few weeks yet...

I think the point isn't his relatively good achievements to date, it's more that many think we should have achieved all that with far greater ease, given our current talent pool. We have after all, played negatively and scored a single goal in this competition.

He has picked injured and out of form players. Why the hell would you do that? Maguire isn't THAT good compared too all the other options we have, so why pick him? And Kane should NOT be captain, it's ridiculous to have an attacker as captain, especially one who barely speaks.

 

[Klaas]

Yep. He’s done really well. Not the best manager but has surprised many. I don’t get why people feel the need to have the knives out for him tbh - as soon as there’s any ‘bad’ result - which in this case was a draw! Short memories I feel.

Because football.

And because English football fans.

And even more of a because, The England National Team.

 

[BN41Albion]

Watching Wales and Scotland it is pretty obvious their managers have a bit of tactical know-how. But watching England is SO frustrating because tactically we often don't seem to know what to do. Why were we so scared of Scotland? A team who hardly know how to score, yet we play 4 at the back with 2 holding midfielders. The full backs must clearly have been told not to do anything remotely adventurous (especially Reece James, who I believe managed just 4 forward passes all game). So we leave a HUGE hole in central midfield - enabling a 20 year old (making his full debut) to run the show for the opposition!!!

We all thought Southgate had played a blinder for the Croatia match, but it turns out (after their game vs Czech Republic) that Croatia aren't really that good!

I think Southgate is a very decent guy, and we all know that the England manager's job is a nightmare - but surely SOMEONE in the England set up must have some tactical understanding? I see Graeme Jones is part of the set-up for the Euros, and he has a decent reputation as a coach, I understand. However, apart from being ultra-conservative, I'm unsure what brand of football England wants to play? When you look at other national teams - and indeed pretty much every team in the Premier League - you know what they are trying to achieve. With England, I'm not sure.

My thoughts exactly. It is incredibly frustrating. There is no reason we can't be setting up and playing something like Italy with the players we have. But yet here we are in typical England fashion setting up scared of the opposition and with a safety first approach, playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths. Not to mention the fact that we're also pissing around with formations and the starting 11 as the tournament is progressing, which is ridiculous.

Southgate can say this is a young team, we're learning etc all he likes, but it will absolutely fall on deaf ears this year if we crash out having played poorly throughout considering the fantastic talent we have. We'll see. I hope I'm wrong...

As an aside, is the England job a nightmare? Granted some of our press is awful, but other countries have very harsh press too (especially considering the relative success those countries have had over the years compared to us). I think most people are only asking for a positive approach - to take the game to the opposition to show what we're made of. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Randy McNob]

Yep. He’s done really well. Not the best manager but has surprised many. I don’t get why people feel the need to have the knives out for him tbh - as soon as there’s any ‘bad’ result - which in this case was a draw! Short memories I feel.

short memories indeed, they must have completely erased previous managers from their memories, we were a complete joke under Capello, at least we don't go to tournaments and embarrass ourselves, went out to Iceland last time. Some fans just dislike Southgate irrespective of results, if we do well they say we got an easy route, they clearly have an agenda

 

[Iggle Piggle]

short memories indeed, they must have completely erased previous managers from their memories, we were a complete joke under Capello, at least we don't go to tournaments and embarrass ourselves, went out to Iceland last time. Some fans just dislike Southgate irrespective of results, if we do well they say we got an easy route, they clearly have an agenda

The easy route thing in the last World Cup is bang on. When Belgium beats us in the group stages our odds shortened to win it as if to prove the point. We then stumbled past Columbia and beat a functional Swedish side before losing to Croatia who were no world beaters themselves. We could and should have won that game but were done by in game changes we didn't react to as well as basic tactics of Walker being targeted in the air as he was weak (and not killing them off when we should have) .

I'd also argue he has a pool of players at his disposal that the likes of Graham Taylor could only dream of yet we looked very much like a team with Carlton Palmer in midfield on Friday. We have some genuine talent.

GS has done a lot right with the spirit of the squad and seems like a good bloke with it which I'm sure counts for a lot with the players. The problem is that tactically he or his coaches react too slowly or not at all if things don't go to plan and he currently has a reliance on players that are injured or out of form. We have a good squad and home advantage for most of it but whose betting on us getting past the last 8 or even 16? I'm not. I hope we come good and in a one game knock out tournament we may yet come good or get lucky but I certainly don't expect it.