Using disability labels to extract the michael – what is acceptable on NSC?

[Triggaaar]

I have an uncle named michael

I have a grandson named Michael as well........but fair play when i read your post it did make me laugh

Well the OP is named Michael, so perhaps he can get away with it.

 

[Captain Sensible]

"Never go full retard"

Quote from a Ben Stiller movie a few years back.
Should this type of thing be banned?

 

[rool]

If I describe Lua-Lua as a black b*****d then most people would think that was racist abuse and unacceptable. Including me.

But what if I call him a black George Best? Is that unacceptable and if so why? It's far from derogatory, in fact it's the very opposite.

QUOTE]

I personally can't see anything wrong with that but NSC could turn that into a very heated debate over whether a) Kazenga Lua Lua has no where near the ability that GB had in his little finger or b) GB was a wife beating alcoholic who ruined a good liver that someone else more deserving could have used.

 

[rool]

Maybe sometimes, but most of the examples I've seen will be from people totally unaware that their comment will offend people other than the person they're trying to insult.

I must admit I used to notice it most from maybe safeway and some of the NSP posters a while back.

 

[Triggaaar]

But what if I call him a black George Best? Is that unacceptable and if so why? It's far from derogatory, in fact it's the very opposite.

As Bozza said, a can of worms.

Black is not an offensive term, just as Suarez was arguing Negrito isn't, but in a negative context it's obvious you are being racist. Spastic is an offensive term, and it's difficult to use it in another way (that's not a challenge).

 

[Seagull Steve]

As a wheelchair user myself, I can see both sides of this argument. I can see that somebody using these words, would probably never say it to a disabled person, because it isn't meant in that way. But there are words that imo are out of order. I have reported several posts in the past that have used the word spastic. The mods were spot on and either changed the word or deleted the post. Call me precious if you like, but why should anybody come onto a bloody good board to find it offensive in anyway? We are all mainly here because of our love of the Albion or football in particular. Try if you can to see it from the other persons point of view, whether they are gay, or have different colour skin or are disabled. I know there are some on here with the attitude of 'if you don't like it f*** off' But I am not going to do that. It doesn't happen very often on here, and as I say, the staff have sorted things straight away. I know 99% of you would go out of your way to help people like myself, I have had and seen it at Withdean, The Amex and away grounds that I have been too. So even if I know you don't mean the derogatory word, It would be much better if you used some other phrase. I swear like a trooper, but when it isn't appropriate, I curb it, its a matter of respect.

 

[saslowi]

I've been in a wheelchair for more than 55 years and don't give a toss what people call me.

If they want to show their ignorance by using derogatory words then good luck to them. I will give them the respect they (don't) deserve.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

Title of the thread changed slightly at the thread starters request.

On the subject of the title, I have a freind called Micheal, is the OP suggesting his name reminds him of the work p*** or that Micheal smells of p** or maybe even that people with the name Micheal are actualy there just to be ridiculed? ? !! Bit out of order dont you think, Would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet

 

[Triggaaar]

On the subject of the title, I have a freind called Micheal, is the OP suggesting his name reminds him of the work p*** or that Micheal smells of p** or maybe even that people with the name Micheal are actualy there just to be ridiculed? ? !! Bit out of order dont you think, Would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet

Someone pm'd me saying they couldn't read the thread because the work firewall didn't like the word 'piss', so they asked me to change it. I asked hitony to change it to micky, but he decided to take the piss and changed it to michael.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

Someone pm'd me saying they couldn't read the thread because the work firewall didn't like the word 'piss', so they asked me to change it. I asked hitony to change it to micky, but he decided to take the piss and changed it to michael.

I was "extractine urine" I dont have a freind called Micheal, well i did but he is now Micheala he was born a hermaphrodite,so he can go fk himself, quite literally

 

[Uwinsc]

I personally find the word retard offensive but this is probably because I work with many children with learning disabilites. I do think that if people are using it as an insult they ought to think about the person they are addressing it to: do you know that person? Do you know that they don't have a learning disability? How would you feel if you called them that and then found out that the had a learning disability or something like Down syndrome? Personally I would prefer if wasn't used at all but I know people will object to that; so trying asking yourself those questions next time you are going to write it.

 

[tinytears]

I have read all 4 pages on this discussion. I would say it is pretty obvious. If you are using any of the discussed words to insult someone, then you are being offensive. I think we can all tell the difference between someone who uses such words to be insulting & those who use the words because they do not have the vocabulary to use the correct terminology.

 

[tezz79]

I have read all 4 pages on this discussion. I would say it is pretty obvious. If you are using any of the discussed words to insult someone, then you are being offensive. I think we can all tell the difference between someone who uses such words to be insulting & those who use the words because they do not have the vocabulary to use the correct terminology.

That sums it up brilliantly IMO

 

[Triggaaar]

I have read all 4 pages on this discussion. I would say it is pretty obvious. If you are using any of the discussed words to insult someone, then you are being offensive.

Hi Tina. Yes, you are (one is) being offensive, but we just need to clarify whom are you offending. If you're in an argument with someone and want to be offensive to them (which basically is allowed) and you call them a spastic, your accidentally offending a whole chunk of society that weren't even part of the discussion, and probably not offending the person you're arguing with. So unless you're a numpty, you'll use words like numpty instead.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I personally find the word retard offensive but this is probably because I work with many children with learning disabilites. I do think that if people are using it as an insult they ought to think about the person they are addressing it to: do you know that person? Do you know that they don't have a learning disability? How would you feel if you called them that and then found out that the had a learning disability or something like Down syndrome? Personally I would prefer if wasn't used at all but I know people will object to that; so trying asking yourself those questions next time you are going to write it.

That's all well and good and I wouldn't disagree with any of it, but frankly If I call someone a retard then children with learning difficulties never even cross my mind.

To try and take this in another direction, the point of using such offensive terms is to be offensive (funnily enough) There absolutely IS a need for it, e.g next time someone comes on here after we lose and says Gus should be sacked what am I supposed to call them in order to get my feelings accross in print?

It's all about intent, if the insult isn't directed at someone with learning difficulties then you can be pretty sure it wasn't meant in that context. I think [MENTION=17359]Seagull on the wing[/MENTION] summed it up best, words on their own shouldn't be offensive to anyone, words directed with the intent to demean someone with mental illness are.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's all well and good and I wouldn't disagree with any of it, but frankly If I call someone a retard then children with learning difficulties never even cross my mind.

I don't doubt that, but that's not the point. Big Ron wasn't trying to be offensive to others when he called Marcel Desailly a lazy black bastard. But it is offensive to others.

To try and take this in another direction, the point of using such offensive terms is to be offensive (funnily enough) There absolutely IS a need for it, e.g next time someone comes on here after we lose and says Gus should be sacked what am I supposed to call them in order to get my feelings accross in print?

Again I agree, the point is to be offensive, but offensive to the numpty suggesting Gus is sacked, not offensive to other people due to their race, sexual orientation or ability. Call them a twat etc, but don't call them an arse bandit etc.

It's all about intent

It definitely isn't.

 

[Muhammad - I’m hard - Bruce Lee]

interesting,and a can of worms.
i would never use the words spastic or mong to insult someone, or to refer to someone with a disability.
however i have referred to MYSELF as a bit of a spaz, and a mong...generally when its something to do with things i dont understand.... ie: how do you do this on a computer, im a bit a tecno spaz.

 

[Seagull Steve]

I have read all 4 pages on this discussion. I would say it is pretty obvious. If you are using any of the discussed words to insult someone, then you are being offensive. I think we can all tell the difference between someone who uses such words to be insulting & those who use the words because they do not have the vocabulary to use the correct terminology.

Exactly tt, you put it much better than my effort, but I absolutely agree with you.

 

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

Hi Tina. Yes, you are (one is) being offensive, but we just need to clarify whom are you offending. If you're in an argument with someone and want to be offensive to them (which basically is allowed) and you call them a spastic, your accidentally offending a whole chunk of society that weren't even part of the discussion, and probably not offending the person you're arguing with. So unless you're a numpty, you'll use words like numpty instead.

Numpty is defined as 'a bumbling fool'. Numpty is of Scottish origin, taken from obsolete word numps, meaning 'a stupid person'

so is this ok then ?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Someone saying it's all about the intent is only telling half the story. It's also about the effect.

I get that, through ignorance of the history of how it has been used, someone may be using the word 'spastic' as a general word of insult, without actually trying to make any negative judgement about people with disability. Still doesn't make it OK because of the potential hurt it can cause to the person it is directed at or someone else who reads the thread.

There is a bigger conversation to be had than, say, about whether Luis Suarez using the word 'negro' was intending to be racist, whether a school kid using the word 'gay' is intending to be homophobic, or, in this thread, whether an NSCer using the word 'retard' is intending the discriminate against people with disabilities. That conversation is about being responsible for how your words are landing with others.

If people are not bothered about whether their words have the effect of causing offence, and want to pin responsibility for offence being taken on the other person (for them being 'over-sensitive,' 'PC', not growing 'some balls' etc), they are not managing their communication very well.