Using disability labels to extract the michael – what is acceptable on NSC?

[Triggaaar]

The users and moderators of NSC are in agreement that homophobia and racism aren’t acceptable here, and I’d like to know how everyone feels about language that’s offensive to the disabled.

My two children have cerebral palsy (ie, they would have been described as spastics, but that’s not PC anymore). I find posts that use spastic as a derogatory term annoying, but more than that I imagine my kids using this board, sharing their love of the Albion, and wondering why others think their disability is something to ridicule. Consequently I report posts that use that term in a derogatory manor. Other terms like ‘retard’ are used quite frequently here, which some users will find offensive.

So, do you think it’s unacceptable for people to use these words in a derogatory manor on NSC?

Title changed slightly at the OPs request. hitony.

 

[severnside gull]

NO but you will doubtless face the usual "grow a pair" "nanny state" and similar jibes for daring to suggest that the world has moved on

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The users and moderators of NSC are in agreement that homophobia and racism aren’t acceptable here, and I’d like to know how everyone feels about language that’s offensive to the disabled.

My two children have cerebral palsy (ie, they would have been described as spastics, but that’s not PC anymore). I find posts that use spastic as a derogatory term annoying, but more than that I imagine my kids using this board, sharing their love of the Albion, and wondering why others think their disability is something to ridicule. Consequently I report posts that use that term in a derogatory manor. Other terms like ‘retard’ are used quite frequently here, which some users will find offensive.

So, do you think it’s unacceptable for people to use these words in a derogatory manor on NSC?

If people are offended, then they should report the posts. If appropriate, moderators will delete or edit the posts in question.

'Spastic' used a derogatory way, is a banned term on NSC and will always be removed.

 

[Bozza]

Can. Of. Worms.

And one I should probably not reply to in order that I can feign ignorance, but I won't...

It strikes me, and I may be wrong, that terms such as spastic, spacker, retard, mong and the like have, for whatever reason, been in far wider usage than terms relating to race and sexual persuasion for some time now. As such, they are seen by many to be acceptable to a degree.

Maybe it's simply that as a society we're knocking off discrimination one 'flavour' at a time - race has been targeted for some time, homophobia is in focus currently and maybe disability will be next.

Tricky.

 

[Mr Smggles]

My cousin has down-syndrome so the term downy or similar annoys me.

 

[Mellotron]

It is an interesting one, that the word "idiot" originally did mean someone with learning difficulties.

Is anyone going to pull me up for discriminating against the disabled if I call someone an idiot? Or I say someone did something "idiotic"?

Fascinating reading:

Disability

In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe mental retardation. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for mental retardation based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years.

===

I'm not using the above to JUSTIFY anything, I just think it's interesting how recent history shows that words can evolve in meaning fairly quickly.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I'm struggling to see where we draw the line on this, it's a massive grey area and a lot of these words mean different things depending on when you grew up.

Derogatory terms are part of communicating, we especially need them on forums in order to display emotion which can't be conveyed by tone of voice.

Personally I think it should be all or nothing, people are only offended if that particular term is close to home as in triggaar's case. Unless It's a direct insult directed at someone with learning difficulties, it shouldn't be taken personally. Definitely a "man up" situation, and I'm allowed to say that because my mum spent the last 10 years of her life in a wheelchair unable to do much at all for herself.

 

[Mellotron]

Definitely a "man up" situation, and I'm allowed to say that because my mum spent the last 10 years of her life in a wheelchair unable to do much at all for herself.

Is that a fair rule though, that because YOU'RE not offended, no one else has the right to be?

Say an 11-year old kid with learning disabilities who looks on this forum?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'm struggling to see where we draw the line on this, it's a massive grey area and a lot of these words mean different things depending on when you grew up.

Derogatory terms are part of communicating, we especially need them on forums in order to display emotion which can't be conveyed by tone of voice.

Personally I think it should be all or nothing, people are only offended if that particular term is close to home as in triggaar's case. Unless It's a direct insult directed at someone with learning difficulties, it shouldn't be taken personally. Definitely a "man up" situation, and I'm allowed to say that because my mum spent the last 10 years of her life in a wheelchair unable to do much at all for herself.

We can't, and Bozza won't, dictate to people what they are allowed to be offended by.

There are words which you or I would freely use, without meaning any offence at all, which some individual posters might object to (or perhaps object to the context, of). If anyone is offended, they should use the 'Report Post' button, and explain why they are offended.

The mods will read their message, and act as they see fit.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

I find the word 'Numpty' is the perfect put down. Fun, harmless and with no offensive connotations to anything. Can be used at work, when out with friends, and even when talking to your mother.

This message was bought to you by The National Council of Nice Swears.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Times change. I can remember the term "spastic" or "spaz" being used all the time when I was at school. Somehow, then, it didn't register, to us kids, as being an insult to sufferers of cerebral palsy, rather just something to shout at each other when missing an open goal etc. Quite unacceptable now though. Having said that "Love thy Neighbour" and "Til death us do part" were on the tv when we got home.

 

[ROSM]

This is totally a can of worms.

At school, people used to be called 'Joey' after Joey Deacon. Clearly given his disability then that is ridiculing him.

Words like spastic and derivations of are in my view wrong. As is Mong etc. I can understand the anger these stir in people.

But when you get to retard or remedial then I think it starts to get more 'shades of grey' there are many who will be offended but I'm not sure I feel the same level of revulsion.

When I was at school I called someone a cretin. My science teacher made me research cretinism (in the days prior to the internet) and write and essay on it which he then shared with the whole class. That, literally, taught me!

 

[Commander]

Say an 11-year old kid with learning disabilities who looks on this forum?

Are you specifically talking about the one who posts links to his blog on the website telling us how he asked Gus if he wants to get promoted or not and releases exclusive scoops informing us that Vicente probably wont play 90 minutes?

Or a different one?

 

[Bozza]

I'm sure there are many people offended by stuff on NSC every single day. It's the nature of the beast. Some report their upset, I suspect most don't - maybe because they feel there is no point, maybe because they recognise they may be relatively isolated.

For all the moderating team it is a very, very difficult line to tread and we don't always get it right.

But, if we try and dilute conversation too much, I fear NSC will lose much of what has made it one of the most popular football(-ish) messageboards on the web.

 

[petercg365]

Homophobia and racism are illegal, hence they cannot be used.
Other than that it should be open to what anybody wants to write. What offends me may not offend someone else and vice versa.

 

[Simster]

Perhaps the best way forward is that are you going to say something that might offend someone, have a rethink and try and use some other words to express what you are trying to say?

 

[Surrey_Albion]

It is an interesting one, that the word "idiot" originally did mean someone with learning difficulties.

Is anyone going to pull me up for discriminating against the disabled if I call someone an idiot? Or I say someone did something "idiotic"?

Fascinating reading:

Disability

In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe mental retardation. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for mental retardation based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years.

===

I'm not using the above to JUSTIFY anything, I just think it's interesting how recent history shows that words can evolve in meaning fairly quickly.

Exactly this, words like retard no longer mean people with disabilitys, It like saying "twat,knob,dickhead,moron,goon,wally,idiot etc" when I say to someone "you're a retard" I mean the same as if "you're a dick" as in your stupid I make no connection at the time of saying it to a disable person the same way I dont think about penis's on someone face when saying "dickhead" Words and there meaning change all the time, agree spastic is still a bit taboo but thats because it didnt evolve like the other words have, If my Son called someone a retard and asked him what it meant he wouldnt have a clue apart from someone being stupid

 

[Horses Arse]

It is an interesting one, that the word "idiot" originally did mean someone with learning difficulties.

Is anyone going to pull me up for discriminating against the disabled if I call someone an idiot? Or I say someone did something "idiotic"?

Fascinating reading:

Disability

In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe mental retardation. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for mental retardation based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years.

===

I'm not using the above to JUSTIFY anything, I just think it's interesting how recent history shows that words can evolve in meaning fairly quickly.

That's really hacked me off! I'll have you know that I don't go onto this forum to learn interesting stuff!

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

Homophobia and racism are illegal, hence they cannot be used.
Other than that it should be open to what anybody wants to write. What offends me may not offend someone else and vice versa.

I may have misinterpreted that, but it seems like you're saying because it's not illegal, using derogatory words that compare someone to somebody with a learning disability is fair game?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Perhaps the best way forward is that are you going to say something that might offend someone, have a rethink and try and use some other words to express what you are trying to say?

You sound like my MUM.

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"...