University tuition fees

[KneeOn]

Quite.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

When I first started recruiting new gradutes it was about 30 years ago. Any level of degree was acceptable, with a real bonus in someone wanting your job with a first class honours.

6 years ago when I did my last recruiting we would have about 100 applicants for each position. Third class and lower seconds went out at the first filter. Upper seconds and firsts came under some further scrutiny, and there was often an excess of firsts.

Opening up Universities to all has not made the population more intelligent, just better educated.

Sure, but I would say there are numerous upper second class degrees which will trump a first.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You need to have a degree of some sort to even get an interview at some places. Look at HKFC's example. However, it appears poor people can wave goodbye to a £16k job in administration assistant from now on. The likes of thick Tarquin will have that job, because his mum and dad are going to pay off his £30k graduation bill.

Au contraire Sim.

The new graduates won't even get an interview, because I'm not wasting my time training someone up who doesn't really want to be here. I'm not paying someone £16k a year, to polish their CV, and surf the internet looking for a 'proper' job.

 

[clapham_gull]

Is the creme of englands educational system and smarts not meant to be the top Russell Group uni's anyway?

My degree i hope will come from a Uni only set up a year before my birth; Bournemouth University. It has a heavy practical focus. It will luckily get me a job in the area I want to work in becasue i'm studying a topic that both interests me outside of a career and I would love to have a career in. Many "Micky Mouse" uni's offer these courses and its only a good thing to diversify the types of degree's were offering and diversify the types of people who are getting degrees, and that means making more room for those who were good enough but not rich enough.

Depends which league table you look at.

I've been to two. One is in the "Russell Group", the other not but ranked higher than some of the former in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings,

 

[KneeOn]

Au contraire Sim.

The new graduates won't even get an interview, because I'm not wasting my time training someone up who doesn't really want to be here. I'm not paying someone £16k a year, to polish their CV, and surf the internet looking for a 'proper' job.

What if they are genuinely wanting to move up the chain in your company and are willing to start at the lower 16k a year job without looking aside for a new job but wanting to stay and just move up?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What if they are genuinely wanting to move up the chain in your company and are willing to start at the lower 16k a year job without looking aside for a new job but wanting to stay and just move up?

Then they've lucked out.

 

[Simster]

A first at a random former poly versus a 2:1 from Cambridge?

Fair enough, I take your point.

 

[KneeOn]

Depends which league table you look at.

I've been to two. One is in the "Russell Group", the other not but ranked higher than some of the former in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings,

Thats why I said "top" russell group Uni's.

I'm talking UCL, Oxford, Camberidge, Edinburgh. Places where the average UCAS points for a sucessful applicant is 511. An A is 140 Ucas Points. (If you didn't know)

 

[Simster]

Then they've lucked out.

Erm, when you "luck out", it means you got lucky.

I think you mean they are "out of luck"!

 

[KneeOn]

Then they've lucked out.

Harsh.

 

[shaolinpunk]

Erm, when you "luck out", it means you got lucky.

I think you mean they are "out of luck"!

In the US, yes. In the UK, no.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wonder how them miners are getting on?

 

[shaolinpunk]

I wonder how them miners are getting on?

Probably wondering about how they'll afford uni

Oh wait, miners. I thought you said minors. My bad.

 

[Simster]

In the US, yes. In the UK, no.

I don't think so. It's a North American expression.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Erm, when you "luck out", it means you got lucky.

I think you mean they are "out of luck"!

Wrong

Harsh.

Yes, I am. You have to be to narrow down your search. To be honest I had considered your point, but realistically, this particular job is what it is. Its not a springboard to bigger and better things [here]. So if that were their plan, I've done them a favour.

In the US, yes. In the UK, no.

 

[sten_super]

Many "Micky Mouse" uni's offer these courses and its only a good thing to diversify the types of degree's were offering and diversify the types of people who are getting degrees, and that means making more room for those who were good enough but not rich enough.

This is the problem though, and the circuituous nature of the argument. The current funding solution (with the majority of money coming from general taxation rather than fees) can only support a certain number of students at any one time. If you want more people to go to university you need to find a way of funding it, and in this age of austerity you're not going to get that money from central funding. Therefore the only alternative (given that the maths of a graduate tax doesn't work) seems to be increasing the fees charged. Fundamentally, you want more people going to university, but do not want to pay for it.

 

[clapham_gull]

Thats why I said "top" russell group Uni's.

I'm talking UCL, Oxford, Camberidge, Edinburgh. Places where the average UCAS points for a sucessful applicant is 511. An A is 140 Ucas Points. (If you didn't know)

Calm down....

My point is that just because they have decided to "group" themselves together and they are harder to get into - doesn't guarantee the level of teaching is better.

 

[Peteinblack]

This is neither new nor a revelation. It has always been thus.

Sadly, yes, but this planned increase in top up fees will sure as hell make this division even more entrenched, and further widen the differences between kids with wealthy parents who can sub them or pay of their student debts for them, and poorer kids who won't get bailed out by mummy and daddy, and so will be lumbered for years or decades with debt.

This might always have be the case, but this is hardly a clinching argument for making this scenario even worse!

 

[KneeOn]

Yes, I am. You have to be to narrow down your search. To be honest I had considered your point, but realistically, this particular job is what it is. Its not a springboard to bigger and better things [here]. So if thay were their plan, I've done them a favour.

Fair enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is the problem though, and the circuituous nature of the argument. The current funding solution (with the majority of money coming from general taxation rather than fees) can only support a certain number of students at any one time. If you want more people to go to university you need to find a way of funding it, and in this age of austerity you're not going to get that money from central funding. Therefore the only alternative (given that the maths of a graduate tax doesn't work) seems to be increasing the fees charged. Fundamentally, you want more people going to university, but do not want to pay for it.

But I do want to pay for it. I'm happy for my taxes to go up to cover a whole range of items which I think would improve this country's lot.