University tuition fees

[Simster]

This is neither new nor a revelation. It has always been thus.

Absolute rubbish.

 

[KneeOn]

Yet again you conveniently miss the point that the debt only become repayable (slowly) if the graduate gets a good job and earns in excess of about £21,000 a year. At that point are they still to be considered poor?

If they dont get a job to that value then they repay nothing.

And I think you forget that it'll have market interests rather than this lower intrest rate currently paid so yes it'll be a slow pay back but it will be a longer pay back, and with a much higher interest rate.

Also its worth pointing out that 21k a year is not a lot of money. After anywhere between 2-5 years, a degree student could be earning 28/9K if they got a good degree.

 

[beorhthelm]

As for your second, to some degree I agree with you but given that most nursing education is done via university now then we may need to accept that university is not the bastion of the academically gifted but the seat of further education that many jobs require

an excellent illustration of the problem, universities have changed to catch all further education rather than focusing on academia while leaving vocational training to a different form of institution. the obsession with sending offspring to University has devalued it while braking the system.

only good that will com eof this wil be degree's might actuall mean something again, if only those commited and willing to face the cost burden will go.

 

[ROKERITE]

Crap argument. We all pay for things we dont use.

Except students, who won't pay for a degree they don't use. They'll only pay if it helps them earn enough. I agreed with Perkino's post completely.

 

[El Presidente]

Most new graduates are about 24 years old. The national average is calculated from employees up to the age of 65. Sounds like you are suggesting that, at the tender age of 24, graduates should jump way up this band.

This type of thinking may have been appropriate in the 60's when only about 2% of the population gained degrees, but today every man and his dog goes to university, and thats fine, but they cant all expect to jump way up the wage bands.

You probably wont agree, but having a degree is nothing special in the employment market unless of course its first class honours.

I agree with you entirely that a degree is only part of an individual's attraction to an employer, but you are constantly ignoring the knock on effect that the increased debts will have on young people.

Banks will reduce lending for mortgages if they see that a person has £30k of debt, this has a knock on effect for house prices and other elements of the economy, which as I am sure you will agree, we all need to grow at something returning to trend levels.

I still don't see how giving Philip Green £720 million is 'knocking the f***' out of him though.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Universities charge about £20,000 a year for a student

300% WRONG.

go to uni for a few years and achieve higher education and then start work aged 19 earning £25,000.

How does one go to University [after completing A-levels at 18] for a 'few years' then graduate at 19?

On your second point, I'm currently recruiting for a £16k administration assistant, and have a pile of CV's including new graduates.

 

[El Presidente]

On your second point, I'm currently recruiting for a £16k administration assistant, and have a pile of CV's including new graduates.

Read them carefully, and give the job to the one with the best tits.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Most new graduates are about 24 years old. The national average is calculated from employees up to the age of 65. Sounds like you are suggesting that, at the tender age of 24, graduates should jump way up this band.

This type of thinking may have been appropriate in the 60's when only about 2% of the population gained degrees, but today every man and his dog goes to university, and thats fine, but they cant all expect to jump way up the wage bands.

You probably wont agree, but having a degree is nothing special in the employment market unless of course its first class honours.

24? And only first class honours are 'special'? Yeah, right. Sounds like you're talking about something you know little about.

 

[KneeOn]

Except students, who won't pay for a degree they don't use. They'll only pay if it helps them earn enough. I agreed with Perkino's post completely.

My mum has a degree in Business managment.

She's a Cival Servant, who is an adults complaint officer with WSCC.

Uni isn't just about getting a job. Its about developing academic interest. I'm lucky in the way that my interest is also an emerging job market but what about those who have a degree in fine art? They won't use their degree but we'll be a better nation for having graduates with academic degrees even if they don't use them, because theres so much more to living than just getting a degree, doing a job that uses that degree, and retiring. You can have interests like fine art you want to further and show via Uni, and work as a manager in public services for example.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

an excellent illustration of the problem, universities have changed to catch all further education rather than focusing on academia while leaving vocational training to a different form of institution. the obsession with sending offspring to University has devalued it while braking the system.

only good that will com eof this wil be degree's might actuall mean something again, if only those commited and willing to face the cost burden will go.

Its not an 'excellent illustration' of anything. What nonsense. If somebody is taught effectively as a nurse, or doctor, what TINY difference does it make if the institution providing that training, has the word 'University' or the word 'Polytechnic' after its name?

And on your second point, what you really mean is 'those for whom the cost is NOT a burden'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Except students, who won't pay for a degree they don't use. They'll only pay if it helps them earn enough. I agreed with Perkino's post completely.

But they will pay for other things they do not use.

 

[BLOCK F]

Simster....Good Lord,I always thought you were rather left wing.Wonder what gave me that impression!Anyway,in Reigate nu- gay Crispin would have always got his own way.
On your second point ,we have to deal with what we have got.Nu labour or older Labour,even with red Ed in charge ,I don't reckon the opposition would do anything much different even if they got power tomorrow.
Anyone earning over £25k wealthy eh?Not in my book!
I have said that the Child Benefit changes were a shambles.What more do you want?
P.S.I lived in Reigate for 26 years and sank a few pints in the boozers over that time.Where do you drink...perhaps I should come up and have a bar room discussion with you!

 

[clapham_gull]

an excellent illustration of the problem, universities have changed to catch all further education rather than focusing on academia while leaving vocational training to a different form of institution. the obsession with sending offspring to University has devalued it while braking the system.

only good that will com eof this wil be degree's might actuall mean something again, if only those commited and willing to face the cost burden will go.

Why do you distinguish between vocational and academia ? Where does Law sit then ? What about Computer Science ?

The problem I have with you many people's attitude towards degrees these days - is there seems to be a belief that Universities are actually there to highlight the people that didn't go - rather than the ones who did.

Very odd and only in this country. A degree is "de-valued" because more people are doing them...

If more young great English footballers coming through the system in years to come, will their skills be "de-valued" because there are more of them ?

Yes there is a problem with paying for it - but please don't take the attitude that people continuing their education is a bad thing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My mum has a degree in Business managment.

She's a Cival Servant, who is an adults complaint officer with WSCC.

Uni isn't just about getting a job. Its about developing academic interest. I'm lucky in the way that my interest is also an emerging job market but what about those who have a degree in fine art? They won't use their degree but we'll be a better nation for having graduates with academic degrees even if they don't use them, because theres so much more to living than just getting a degree, doing a job that uses that degree, and retiring. You can have interests like fine art you want to further and show via Uni, and work as a manager in public services for example.

Quite.

 

[Simster]

24? And only first class honours are 'special'? Yeah, right. Sounds like you're talking about something you know little about.

I'd say that was the one thing he has got right. A 2/2 at some random former Poly is nothing special.

And this is part of the problem. You need to have a degree of some sort to even get an interview at some places. Look at HKFC's example. However, it appears poor people can wave goodbye to a £16k job in administration assistant from now on. The likes of thick Tarquin will have that job, because his mum and dad are going to pay off his £30k graduation bill.

 

[Uncle C]

24? And only first class honours are 'special'? Yeah, right. Sounds like you're talking about something you know little about.

When I first started recruiting new gradutes it was about 30 years ago. Any level of degree was acceptable, with a real bonus in someone wanting your job with a first class honours.

6 years ago when I did my last recruiting we would have about 100 applicants for each position. Third class and lower seconds went out at the first filter. Upper seconds and firsts came under some further scrutiny, and there was often an excess of firsts.

Opening up Universities to all has not made the population more intelligent, just better educated.

 

[BLOCK F]

Only if he earns above £21k though....

I hope he will 'cos he owes me lots of beers and has promised to buy me a Bentley one day!

 

[Simster]

Simster....Good Lord,I always thought you were rather left wing.Wonder what gave me that impression!Anyway,in Reigate nu- gay Crispin would have always got his own way.
On your second point ,we have to deal with what we have got.Nu labour or older Labour,even with red Ed in charge ,I don't reckon the opposition would do anything much different even if they got power tomorrow.
Anyone earning over £25k wealthy eh?Not in my book!
I have said that the Child Benefit changes were a shambles.What more do you want?
P.S.I lived in Reigate for 26 years and sank a few pints in the boozers over that time.Where do you drink...perhaps I should come up and have a bar room discussion with you!

Haha, I'll drop you a PM.

 

[KneeOn]

Is the creme of englands educational system and smarts not meant to be the top Russell Group uni's anyway?

My degree i hope will come from a Uni only set up a year before my birth; Bournemouth University. It has a heavy practical focus. It will luckily get me a job in the area I want to work in becasue i'm studying a topic that both interests me outside of a career and I would love to have a career in. Many "Micky Mouse" uni's offer these courses and its only a good thing to diversify the types of degree's were offering and diversify the types of people who are getting degrees, and that means making more room for those who were good enough but not rich enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd say that was the one thing he has got right. A 2/2 at some random former Poly is nothing special.

And this is part of the problem. You need to have a degree of some sort to even get an interview at some places. Look at HKFC's example. However, it appears poor people can wave goodbye to a £16k job in administration assistant from now on. The likes of thick Tarquin will have that job, because his mum and dad are going to pay off his £30k graduation bill.

A first at a random former poly versus a 2:1 from Cambridge?