University Degrees and their value...

[Greeno]

I went to a red brick university. Among my house mates, the one who got a 2:2 in Human Geography (!) earns the most. I got a first and earn virtually nothing as a lecturer.

I do think that many degrees ought not to be offered. Rather, apprenticeships for subjects, such as Restaurant Management and Tourism, would be far more effective in teaching the necessary skills and in accumulating experience. The Tories killing Polytechnics was a major mistake. They would have been ideal for such apprenticeships.

I think labour's pledge to have 50% of all school-leavers in higher education was also a mistake. I really do not believe that University should be for the many. There was a time when grandparents used to brag about their grandchildren going to university; in a few years the bragging rights will be reserved to grandparent's bragging about their grandchildren not being on the list of those who missed out!

 

[clapham_gull]

Obviously if somebody who has potential, such as yourself, has mitigating circumstances then that is a completely different matter altogether. It is the people who have performed consistently low throughout their schooling days who I am referring to.

Bearing in mind that if the proposed cuts come into being, they will be the highest cuts that have ever been recorded in the higher education sector. While there may be few who do buck their ideas up whilst at university, perhaps the prospect of having to fight to get in to an established university will try to get them to sort it out sooner.

Whilst I am sure there are people who are naturally clever, I really genuinely do not believe that there are people who are naturally not clever (unless of course they have learning difficulties). My headteacher always said to me 'the results don't lie' and i firmly believe that if somebody works consistently hard throughout the two years of A levels then there is no way they should be coming out with D's and E's and should therefore be rewarded with a place in a good university with a good degree. However, the situation is at the moment that people who do not work consistently hard throughout and went to much lower tier universities will come out with a 2:1 in events management for example will be competing for places with people come out with good degrees in history and english. With employers insisting on a 2:1 in any discipline, it is anyone's game, and that, in my opinion is completely unfair.

I don't disagree entiely, but I know loads of people whose only qualification is a degree. They've usually done it later, but again in my experience they are often more worthy of the place than somebody with straight As.

I've got very different views to higher education than the norm through my experiences and (to be honest) question the validity of A Levels. Nothing to do with my grades, I could have easliy have gone back and re-took them.

What I will say is that you shouldn't go to University thinking it will prepare you for work or instantly get you a job, although it worked out like for me. Well for a short time, I was carrying boxes for a few years after that.

In actual fact, it works much nicer the other way round. Working for years was PERFECT preparation for going back to a masters. You are used to getting up in the morning for a start.

Education has a genuine ability to turn peoples lives around, even if that applies to people who pissed around at school for a few years. I genuinely think is wasted on people whose lives are already mapped out by their class, their families money and the school they went to.

 

[Greeno]

I don't disagree entiely, but I know loads of people whose only qualification is a degree. They've usually done it later, but again in my experience they are often more worthy of the place than somebody with straight As.

I've got very different views to higher education than the norm through my experiences and (to be honest) question the validity of A Levels. Nothing to do with my grades, I could have easliy have gone back and re-took them.

What I will say is that you shouldn't go to University thinking it will prepare you for work or instantly get you a job. In actual fact, it works much nicer the other way round. Working for years was PERFECT preparation for going back to a masters. You are used to getting up in the morning for a start.

Education has a genuine ability to turn peoples lives around, even if that applies to people who pissed around at school for a few years. I genuinely think is wasted on people whose lives are already mapped out by their class, their families money and the school they went to.

I completely support people who choose to go to university later on in life if their motive is purely because they want to study. I have a gentleman in my seminar group who is 60years old and this is his third degree because he simply loves studying so much!

I wouldn't wish to speculate on your age ClaphamSeagull, but don't forget years ago, it wasn't uncommon for people to leave school without any or very little qualifications and it is this generation who i support getting degrees.

The ones i don't are the ones who have qualifications although they are very low and so one must question their motive's for going. If education is to turn people's lives around, surely one would hope that in the 13 years they have before going to university, they would have done so by then.

And the whole class/money thing annoys me too- I had pretty good grades and could have applied to oxbridge but didn't wanted to waste one of my options because i instinctinvely felt that I would get pissed on as soon as I entered. But i guess at the end of the day, the people that go there and who come from places like Eton tend to be some of the brightest minds who go on to become the country's leading politicians and judges so that must surely stand for something.

 

[Beeercan]

Im doing History and I'll be just fine thanks. Media Studies, Photography etc, they're the ones you need to worry about. Guess it depends on the Uni though.

I got my degree a year ago from a top 5 uni in Arcchaeology and where has it got me...



...shop work for Halfords, and 20k debt for the privilege.

Don't count your chickens just jet, the Tories cuts will hit for the next few years getting a degree is not a quick fix

 

[clapham_gull]

.. so that must surely stand for something.

I think it's called the Conservative Party, but I get your point. I have this extreme view that you should send all the working class kids to Eton and Oxbridge. The other ones will be fine anyway and the country would be a much better place.

Just my opinion mind...

 

[Gwylan]

But what about History, Philosophy, Art History, Scoiology etc... I'm just curious as to what the kids being advised they can achieve with degrees like this?

I've seen that people have stuck up for history, I'll stick up for philosophy (which is my degree subject). It's an extremely useful subject, based entirely on logical thinking. Because my speciality was philosophy of mathematics, I had to know quite a bit of maths too - which led to my first job as a statistician (I then gave that up to retrain as a journalist, but that's another story).

As others have said, don't write off non-vocational courses - they do teach valuable skills.

And vocational courses aren't always what they seem; the number of vacancies for lawyers is much smaller than the number of people doing law degrees. So even someone doing a seemingly vocational course could end up doing something different.

 

[Gwylan]

I agree with what you're saying. I graduated with a 2.1 in journalism but I've now worked in a pub for two years and recently been promoted to assistant manager. I've had countless interviews and the feedback has always been good but they've gone for someone who always has more experience. This is frustrating when part of my course was actual work placement at various newspapers and magazines.

It's f***ing annoying not being able to get a job in the field I studied for three years.

Sometimes I look back and wonder if uni was a big mistake, especially when the student loans letter comes through the door with the £20, 000 debt I owe them.

That's very dispiriting. I know what it feels like as I was over a year on the dole after doing my journalism diploma - no degrees in those days. I sent off about 500 applications in that time so it was beginning to get me down. I eventually got a job because (of all unlikely things) I was the only candidate who had an O level in Latin and the boss had a bee in his bonnet that only people who knew Latin could become journalists.

So, you never know what's around the corner and what skills that you have maybe useful. I'd continue writing, make sure you have a blog and update it regularly, contribute to mags/websites - lots of places are always looking for free copy (don't go mad though, the odd piece now and then, don't do several hours a week working for nothing) and develop other skills - website design, video editing, another language etc. Good luck with it - I've been there and know what it's like

 

[sammy g]

I have a degree (2:2), which is relevant for the job I do, most of my colleagues don't have one. I am being asked to do a professional qualification by my employers, despite my relevant degree. So it does feel like a waste of time at the moment. Although I did have a laugh, not sure that makes up for it!

 

[bhaexpress]

A degree of any sort indicates that at least you can read. A third means at least you attended some of your classes.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Sorry one of those typical stories that focuses on a single module (probably optional) and gives an unrepresentative impression of the degree as a whole.

While I was finishing off my time as a graduate student in social anthropology, I taught an undergraduate course called 'Incest and Exogamy'.

I shudder to think what the media might make of such a course these days.

To the best of my knowledge, though, none of the students on the course went rushing off to live in East Anglia. So it can't have been completely pointless.

And the relevance of a degree in social anthropology? It served my career very well, as it happens. Although I guess most of the civil engineers I worked alongside for thirty years probably wondered why I wasted my time studying a 'non subject'.

 

[Springal]

It's amazing that people value degrees so highly nowadays, in subjects where they are not needed. I know more people that didn't do the uni thing and are doing a lot better than people that did go to uni (I am 24.) People that are working in call centres, shops, office admin type jobs, with a degree, £12k-£20k of debt and had expectations of being able to get any job they wanted, because they have a degree. When I got my first job after college, I was the only person not to have a degree on a new team of 8, I was 19 and they were all 23-24, I was head hunted by a customer after 2 years, while 5 of the 8 were still in the same job after 3 years and made redundant due to company acquisation. Most are floating around between whatever jobs they can get.

I personally think we need an overhaul of courses and numbers going to uni, my brother did an art degree and currently works at H&M [he left 3 years ago] and has applied to hundreds of jobs, that all require the all important 'experience.' He gets the odd bit of freelance work, but certainly nothing he can live off.

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

Don't you realise that most of us at uni don't care what job we get. We just came for 3 years of drinking.

 

[ROSM]

I did a degree equivalent qualification in Banking funded by my employer and through the local polytechnic as it was then.

It has since been changed to a degree awarded through UMIST. I was offered the opportunity to undertake a year's course and get the degree awarded. At 35 as I was then I decided not to. I have however done a number of post graduate courses through the Open University in project and programme management which is now where my career has led me.

My point being is that I think there should be more focus on getting a job and then the employers working with the relevant professional bodies to source and support relevant qualifications (such as my case or the old apprenticeships). I know that University days are good fun and can teach a lot about life, but is that really worth the debt to the individual and the funding to the universities?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

a degree isnt just about the subject, its also about the demonstration of intellect, ability to learn, research and potential to add and improve the body of knowledge. this is why a degree in History and similar still have value. I think generally, if you want to pursue a particular field you need a degree in it, but many transfer or get masters to focus on a career after doing a degree in the subject they enjoy.

the issue of things like Media Studies isnt that they are worthless per se, rather that there are so many of them and they tend to come from the lower teir universities. which btw is equally if not more important than the subject to many, where you got the degree.

this.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I joined the forces at 16 after leaving school with a GCE grade C in maths – the rest were E’s or ungraded. Many moons later after an ONC and HNC I went to Poly and got a 2:1 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. I chose a Poly over Uni (could have gone to Surrey) as they suited me and my lack of ‘A’ levels, unfortunately the Poly became a Uni which in my book was a mistake.

To me a degree is something that I needed for my work, a vocational qualification. I find it amusing how some people seem to view a vocational qualifications as somehow second class to an ‘academic’ qualification such as History, as if it isn’t a proper degree or the proper reason for attending Uni. Engineering is a case in point, yet engineering is a subset of physics and I doubt people would call Physics a vocational subject. Learning is learning is learning.
The validity of which degree you take for getting a job is another question entirely, I certainly wouldn’t have given up my job to study for a degree that wouldn’t have given me a good chance of getting a good job. Horses for courses really.

I agree regards Masters in as much as they are a differentiator on the CV – I studied for my MBA purely because it looked good on the CV (also my employer paid for it).

In the past there were more jobs requiring a degree level education than graduates now it is the opposite and many employers have also worked out that it is better to take someone with good ‘A’ levels and train them up than to get a graduate in. Obviously medicine, the sciences and law to name but a few are still highly sort after.
At the end of the day degrees don’t guarantee jobs

I also think it’s wrong for someone to state that someone with C’s shouldn’t go to uni as they obviously haven’t tried. Someone who achieved C’s after being educated in some inner city hell hole masquerading as an educational establishment certainly deserves as much chance as someone who got straight A’s at some nice school in middle England.

I have no problem with people studying classics etc good on them but I view them no better than someone studying a vocational degree

 

[clapham_gull]

It's amazing that people value degrees so highly nowadays, in subjects where they are not needed.

Not needed by who ? The point of University doesn't also have to be about enhance your employment potential - It's also about educating yourself.

 

[clapham_gull]

A degree of any sort indicates that at least you can read. A third means at least you attended some of your classes.

Oh dear....

 

[Simon Morgan]

I graduated a month ago with a 2:1 in History at Portsmouth and I'm heading back to Portsmouth in a couple of weeks to do a year working in the History and Politics dept at Portsmouth Grammar School whilst also getting paid (admittedly a nominal fee) for singing at the Cathedral full-time. Whilst being essentially a gap year scheme I don't really see the job like that, as hopefully it will make me a bit more sure on whether I want to go into teaching or not. Sometimes with private schools they don't demand a PGCE either... Even so, whilst the year will provide good experience and will be good fun, I may well be on my arse again afterwards. Just have to try and have something lined up I suppose.

 

[El Presidente]

However, the situation is at the moment that people who do not work consistently hard throughout and went to much lower tier universities will come out with a 2:1 in events management for example will be competing for graduate jobs with people who come out with good degrees in history and english. With employers insisting on a 2:1 in any discipline, it is anyone's game, and that, in my opinion is completely unfair.

Speaking as an employability officer at a university, I have to disagree with you.

Employers do place a premium on STEM subjects (Science, Technololgy, Enterprise and Maths) and also classic humanities and language degrees, so would look on a history degree more favourably.

What they are also saying at present is that with so many people graduating with a first or a 2:1 that other things graduates are doing in their lives, be it employment, volunteering or sundry activities, are taken very seriously.

...........and they also check Facebook accounts too!