University Degrees and their value...

[Greeno]

My opinions on Higher Education are quite controversial but here goes:

I think somewhere along the way, the functions and purposes of Universities have been lost. They are, ultimately, places of academia where people who want to study and learn go to study and learn.

Somebody who gets A's and B's is clearly an academic student who is willing and able to learn. Somebody who comes out with D's and E's, in my opinion, should not be going to university. The purpose of universities is for academia, and somebody who comes out with those grades is clearly not an academic person. Instead, they would be better suited doing vocational courses, perhaps at universities, however I do not feel that they or the universities which offer these courses for people who are clearly not academic should be given funding at the expense of universities like oxford and cambridge who are leading in all the fields that they offer and who at the moment are facing financial cuts. These cuts, in my opinion are because the students who lack academic ability and go to University for the sake of it have become a burden on the high education sector that scientists researching a cure for cancer are facing cuts because x university needs resources to fund its events management course.

 

[Greeno]

Further, are university degrees still worth alot? I definitely think so. But I think the institution you go to is worth more than the degree you get. Somebody who gets a 2:2 from UCL, imho, is much more likely to end up with a better job than somebody who gets a 2:1 from London Met

 

[clapham_gull]

a degree isnt just about the subject, its also about the demonstration of intellect, ability to learn, research and potential to add and improve the body of knowledge. this is why a degree in History and similar still have value. I think generally, if you want to pursue a particular field you need a degree in it, but many transfer or get masters to focus on a career after doing a degree in the subject they enjoy.

the issue of things like Media Studies isnt that they are worthless per se, rather that there are so many of them and they tend to come from the lower teir universities. which btw is equally if not more important than the subject to many, where you got the degree.

Lots or lower tier universities offer History as well though, whilst a number of good Universities offer media type degrees and very good ones at that.

I know a number of people working in television production that did a media studies degree, but admittedly I don't socialise with many historians - but like Law that's a good catch all degree to take.

Personally I've always been prepared to do very rubbish jobs on very rubbish money. After my first job I was quite prepared to break up and carry cardboard boxes at a company I wanted to join.

 

[Tooting Gull]

One of the things that interested me was this assumed figure of £100,000 more earnings over a lifetime on average if you went to university.

If you think about that figure, over say 40-45 years, I thought it would have been more. That's only about £2,500 a year on average. Then you take off the loan from going in the first place (say £15k?), and offset the (let's say) £45k you would have earned in the three years by not going, and you're already down to about £1,000 a year difference on average.

 

[Bobby's Gull]

They seem a bit meaningless at the moment - myself and a lot of people I know with varying degrees ranging between 2:2 and 1st's are either in a job they could probably have got into straight frmo college, or are signed on.

Fingers crossed that will change as we pull out of this slump - but it seems that you have to be a mini genius, rather than just clever, to get one one of the major graduate schemes at the moment.

I agree with what you're saying. I graduated with a 2.1 in journalism but I've now worked in a pub for two years and recently been promoted to assistant manager. I've had countless interviews and the feedback has always been good but they've gone for someone who always has more experience. This is frustrating when part of my course was actual work placement at various newspapers and magazines.

It's f***ing annoying not being able to get a job in the field I studied for three years.

Sometimes I look back and wonder if uni was a big mistake, especially when the student loans letter comes through the door with the £20, 000 debt I owe them.

 

[Greeno]

From experience the degree that's the most useful is Law. It opens all sorts of doors, especially if you don't want to enter the legal profession.

Im currently studying law and am still weighing up whether to enter the profession. May I ask, what makes you say this?

 

[clapham_gull]

Back in my day you could go and study at a University, get pissed off with subject after a year (Cultural History) and apply for another degree in Manchester and get another three years grant at the discretion of the local authority

.. not naming names though

 

[clapham_gull]

Im currently studying law and am still weighing up whether to enter the profession. May I ask, what makes you say this?

I've met loads of people who studied law (in good jobs) who didn't decide to take it up.

I also met a few who jacked it in after a while and did other things.

There is also the possibility of being an "in-house" legal person in a completely different industry. Met loads of those as well. That's obviously dependent on what flavour of law you decide to concentrate in.

My wife is a solicitor but it goes without saying that the skills she learnt during her education are very transferable elsewhere.

It seems to me to be the perfect "catch-all" degree. You made a good choice, hope you do well.

 

[HseagullsH]

One of the things that interested me was this assumed figure of £100,000 more earnings over a lifetime on average if you went to university.

If you think about that figure, over say 40-45 years, I thought it would have been more. That's only about £2,500 a year on average. Then you take off the loan from going in the first place (say £15k?), and offset the (let's say) £45k you would have earned in the three years by not going, and you're already down to about £1,000 a year difference on average.

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Graduates' earnings stay ahead

Medicine: £340,315
Engineering: £243,730
Maths: £241,749
Business: £184,694
Average graduate: £160,061
Languages: £96,281
Humanities: £51,549
Arts: £34,494

Average graduate earning £160,000 more. Agreed not masses over a lifetime, but £4500 a year more is surely worth the three years..

It also shows the range in subjects. A course that provides an average of £200,000 more is worthwhile!

Also you took off the £45k that you would have earned otherwise. I think this is already calculated in the total earnings..

 

[e77]

I get the impression having parents who can bank roll you doing an internship helps you get along in professional life.

Another obstacle to social mobility.

 

[clapham_gull]

I get the impression having parents who can bank roll you doing an internship helps you get along in professional life.

Another obstacle to social mobility.

Those things should be made illegal. Cheap (well free) labour nothing more nothing less.

 

[Lush]

Would be interesting if the number of vocational courses on offer actually bore some relation to the chances of getting paid employment in a particular field eg Journalism, or Photography, or Theatre Design etc ...

Seems to be operating on some kind of X factor system at the moment, with universities training some genuinely talented people, but an awful lot of deluded hopefuls.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Graduates' earnings stay ahead

Medicine: £340,315

Medicine?

I was under the impression that all doctors needed degrees, so it seems rather futile to compare the earnings of medical professionals with them to those without them?

 

[clapham_gull]

My opinions on Higher Education are quite controversial but here goes:

I think somewhere along the way, the functions and purposes of Universities have been lost. They are, ultimately, places of academia where people who want to study and learn go to study and learn.

Somebody who gets A's and B's is clearly an academic student who is willing and able to learn. Somebody who comes out with D's and E's, in my opinion, should not be going to university. The purpose of universities is for academia, and somebody who comes out with those grades is clearly not an academic person. Instead, they would be better suited doing vocational courses, perhaps at universities, however I do not feel that they or the universities which offer these courses for people who are clearly not academic should be given funding at the expense of universities like oxford and cambridge who are leading in all the fields that they offer and who at the moment are facing financial cuts. These cuts, in my opinion are because the students who lack academic ability and go to University for the sake of it have become a burden on the high education sector that scientists researching a cure for cancer are facing cuts because x university needs resources to fund its events management course.

I've got mixed views on that to be honest. I know people who worked very very hard to get into Oxbridge but others you simply appeared to have the right accent and went to the right school who did the same.

I was really ill during my A Levels and got rubbish grades, so ended up in what people are referring to as a "lesser" University in London for a year.

Having said that I worked very very hard for a year and through that was able to transfer (you could then) to Manchester University to start all over again. Job done, thanks East London Polytechnic.

But the college up there had a very open door policy in terms of grades, in that you didn't actually need any to get in believe it or not, although I had of course.


In Manchester I saw degrees transform peoples lives. I note that one person in my year without a qualification to their name is now a lecturer up there.

From my experience, I've seem countless examples of people who have been told by their teachers at school they have no academic potential end up with more academic qualifications themselves.

That was of course years ago, but I've seen exactly the same thing on my Masters (all my colleagues have now finished, but for personal reasons I needed to defer a single piece of work till this year).

There was this one bloke who suffered from confidence in the first year because unlike the rest of us he didn't have a first degree. Bit analagous to A Levels if you are doing your first.

He scraped through the first year and was advised by the lecturers not to bother coming back for the next. He ignored them, got himself together in the summer and absolutely stormed it during the second. Computer Science isn't a mickey mouse subject either, I had the nervous breakdown in Trafalgar Square one night after failing to do long division in Hexadecimal to tell me that. As for recursive assembler code....

But he was the one I went to for help in the second year.

Now he sits in the pub back in Essex answering the question "Where the f*ck have you been?" with "I'm a fully qualified computer scientist..."

So in my experience (and I've got a bit on the subject) academic qualities are often something stuck on you like a badge by someone else.

It's obviously the way you get in, but are A Levels really a good indicator of whether you can handle a degree. Not really...

 

[Uncle C]

Students are being given the chance to sign up to what is thought to be the UK's first course focusing on the world of Harry Potter.

The Durham University module uses the works of JK Rowling to examine prejudice, citizenship and bullying in modern society.

So far about 80 undergraduates have signed up for the optional module, part of a BA degree in Education Studies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wear-11011279

 

[clarkey]

Students are being given the chance to sign up to what is thought to be the UK's first course focusing on the world of Harry Potter.

The Durham University module uses the works of JK Rowling to examine prejudice, citizenship and bullying in modern society.

So far about 80 undergraduates have signed up for the optional module, part of a BA degree in Education Studies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wear-11011279

One of my friends is doing that module as an option as part of his Archaelogy course. He cant wait. Madness.

 

[clapham_gull]

Students are being given the chance to sign up to what is thought to be the UK's first course focusing on the world of Harry Potter.

The Durham University module uses the works of JK Rowling to examine prejudice, citizenship and bullying in modern society.

So far about 80 undergraduates have signed up for the optional module, part of a BA degree in Education Studies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wear-11011279

Sorry one of those typical stories that focuses on a single module (probably optional) and gives an unrepresentative impression of the degree as a whole.

I found those type of modules quite useful to be honest, takes your brain into other areas for a while. I did chimpanzee communication on my Media Studies degree. I also studied the Tampon industry as part of the business studies. That was really because I didn't want to outdone by the bloke who took up condoms.

During my "cultural history period" I went for "homoeroticism in 17th century art"

Admittedly I've struggled to bring them together into a unified theory of human existence.

If you really want a story I'll tell you about the girl in London whose final project consisted of photographs of "men's parts". Beautifully mounted, but that's for another night.

 

[Skint Gull]

My opinions on Higher Education are quite controversial but here goes:

I think somewhere along the way, the functions and purposes of Universities have been lost. They are, ultimately, places of academia where people who want to study and learn go to study and learn.

Somebody who gets A's and B's is clearly an academic student who is willing and able to learn. Somebody who comes out with D's and E's, in my opinion, should not be going to university. The purpose of universities is for academia, and somebody who comes out with those grades is clearly not an academic person. Instead, they would be better suited doing vocational courses, perhaps at universities, however I do not feel that they or the universities which offer these courses for people who are clearly not academic should be given funding at the expense of universities like oxford and cambridge who are leading in all the fields that they offer and who at the moment are facing financial cuts. These cuts, in my opinion are because the students who lack academic ability and go to University for the sake of it have become a burden on the high education sector that scientists researching a cure for cancer are facing cuts because x university needs resources to fund its events management course.

If i was the sort of twat on here to write 'This', this would be the time and place to do it

 

[Greeno]

I've got mixed views on that to be honest. I know people who worked very very hard to get into Oxbridge but others you simply appeared to have the right accent and went to the right school who did the same.

I was really ill during my A Levels and got rubbish grades, so ended up in what people are referring to as a "lesser" University in London for a year.

Having said that I worked very very hard for a year and through that was able to transfer (you could then) to Manchester University to start all over again. Job done, thanks East London Polytechnic.

But the college up there had a very open door policy in terms of grades, in that you didn't actually need any to get in believe it or not, although I had of course.


In Manchester I saw degrees transform peoples lives. I note that one person in my year without a qualification to their name is now a lecturer up there.

From my experience, I've seem countless examples of people who have been told by their teachers at school they have no academic potential end up with more academic qualities themselves.

That was of course years ago, but I seen exactly the same thing on my Masters (all my colleagues have now finished, but for personal reasons I needed to defer a single piece of work till this year).

There was this one bloke who suffered from confidence in the first year because unlike the rest of us he didn't have a first degree. Bit analagous to A Levels if you are doing your first.

He scraped through the first year and was advised by the lecturers not to bother coming back for the next. He ignored them, got himself together in the summer and absolutely stormed in during the second.

He was the one we went to for help.

Now he sits in the pub back in Essex answering the question "Where the f*ck have you been?" with "I'm a fully qualified computer scientist..."

So in my experience (and I've got a bit on the subject) academic qualities are sometimes something stuck on you like a badge by someone else.

Obviously if somebody who has potential, such as yourself, has mitigating circumstances then that is a completely different matter altogether. It is the people who have performed consistently low throughout their schooling days who I am referring to.

Bearing in mind that if the proposed cuts come into being, they will be the highest cuts that have ever been recorded in the higher education sector. While there may be few who do buck their ideas up whilst at university, perhaps the prospect of having to fight to get in to an established university will try to get them to sort it out sooner.

Whilst I am sure there are people who are naturally clever, I really genuinely do not believe that there are people who are naturally not clever (unless of course they have learning difficulties). My headteacher always said to me 'the results don't lie' and i firmly believe that if somebody works consistently hard throughout the two years of A levels then there is no way they should be coming out with D's and E's and should therefore be rewarded with a place in a good university with a good degree. However, the situation is at the moment that people who do not work consistently hard throughout and went to much lower tier universities will come out with a 2:1 in events management for example will be competing for graduate jobs with people who come out with good degrees in history and english. With employers insisting on a 2:1 in any discipline, it is anyone's game, and that, in my opinion is completely unfair.

 

[ryeseagull]

I went to a red brick university. Among my house mates, the one who got a 2:2 in Human Geography (!) earns the most. I got a first and earn virtually nothing as a lecturer.

I do think that many degrees ought not to be offered. Rather, apprenticeships for subjects, such as Restaurant Management and Tourism, would be far more effective in teaching the necessary skills and in accumulating experience. The Tories killing Polytechnics was a major mistake. They would have been ideal for such apprenticeships.