[News] UK government allows use of pesticide that kills bees.

[vegster]

more cane sugar shipped in from round the world, less need for beet sugar with the pesticides here.

Overall the situation is a mess, yes, we should be self sufficient for our main supply of sugar. However, sugar itself is increasingly being seen as toxic and we should be reducing our intake accordingly. However, business is business and they will continue to claim its healthy if used in moderation. For how many years did Philip Morris cover up the negative effects ( there are NO positive effects !) of smoking while making money ?

Ultimately this comes down to a fight over something we don't actually need and shouldn't use, just like Whale meat.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Just a question, if people are thinking of keeping bees and have a ready to go beehive could they call a company like yours and say give me a call when you have a swarm to deal with.
I have an allotment and thinking of learning to keep Bees, I want 2 hives and going to surround them with lavender.

We have the Pinner & Ruislip Beekeepers Association HQ, just around the corner from where we live.
A right old mixture of folk in the ways of bee keeping and extracting honey, all very interesting of course.
A while back we attended a talk on beekeeping beginners 101, by Bill Turnbull in Ruislip.
Very interesting and humorous.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Beekee...ords=Bill+turnbull+bees&qid=1610294722&sr=8-1

 

[vegster]

A jokes a joke
But I think you've touched a nerve slightly, what with all that's going on in the world today.
People need to get out and exercise, explore nature as so to speak.
They'll feel the need to see positive things going all around them.
Bees being one of them, I guess a positive of spring and summer to come in 2021.

For me up the allotment, they're a glorious sight.

Tip for the year..... Last summer I grew Runner Bean Moonlight for the first time, It's a white flowering bean and as such, it's supposed to be more attractive to Bees. There has also been a effort to breed in a degree of self-pollination, they were quite a success, instead of lots of flowers NOT pollinating I had very large trusses of pods all uniformly pollinated.

 

[Barham's tash]

Done. So annoyed by this

I don’t understand why anyone would lobby for this action. Agriculture industries have adopted the changed practices since the introduction of the ban.

Edit: so it’s the national farmers Union in response to a specific virus but we all know it’s just an excuse to bring them in unilaterally.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Overall the situation is a mess, yes, we should be self sufficient for our main supply of sugar. However, sugar itself is increasingly being seen as toxic and we should be reducing our intake accordingly. However, business is business and they will continue to claim its healthy if used in moderation. For how many years did Philip Morris cover up the negative effects ( there are NO positive effects !) of smoking while making money ?

Ultimately this comes down to a fight over something we don't actually need and shouldn't use, just like Whale meat.

As far as i'm aware Tate & Lyle use only cane sugar for their products including granulated sugar.
Silver Spoon granulated is made from sugar beet.
Tate & Lyle are the market leaders and produce many products like syrup and treacle, can these be made from beet.
I have only seen beet to any amount grown in Norfolk.
Sugar is also used in thousands of other products like chocolate and fizzy drinks and i know Mars use Tate & Lyle.
Open to be totally corrected but i cannot see how we could ever be self sufficient in sugar.

 

[Chicken Run]

As far as i'm aware Tate & Lyle use only cane sugar for their products including granulated sugar.
Silver Spoon granulated is made from sugar beet.
Tate & Lyle are the market leaders and produce many products like syrup and treacle, can these be made from beet.
I have only seen beet to any amount grown in Norfolk.
Sugar is also used in thousands of other products like chocolate and fizzy drinks and i know Mars use Tate & Lyle.
Open to be totally corrected but i cannot see how we could ever be self sufficient in sugar.

Facts about sugar grown in Britain
Britain’s first sugar beet crop was grown and processed in Norfolk over 100 years ago.
Today the homegrown sugar industry involves 3,000 sugar beet growers and supports up to 9,500 UK jobs in the wider economy.
UK beet production occupies over 100,000 hectares of UK farmland.
Sugar grown by British sugar beet growers makes up for around 50% of the UK’s demand for sugar.
In 2017/18 the UK produced over 300,000 tonnes of sugar for export to Europe and places in the rest of the world.
Sugar beet is sourced from local farms in the East of England and it is cultivated, on average, 28 miles from the UK’s four British Sugar plc factories
UK-produced sugar travels an average distance of 168 miles from beet to bulk delivery point at the sites of UK customers.








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[Chicken Run]

The British beet sugar industry grows, processes and delivers high quality sugar to around 50% of the UK market, and exports across the world. It is the lowest cost sugar producer in the world.

The industry supports up to 9,500 British jobs. Jobs are created in the manufacturing plants and on farms. Suppliers to the factories also create more jobs as the demand for services increases in line with sugar production and manufacturing processes.

In addition, the British homegrown sugar supply chain involves around 7,000 different businesses making it one of the largest customers for many goods and services in the East of England.


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[Chicken Run]

The sugar-making process results in virtually zero waste. British Sugar plc factories operate an advanced manufacturing system that turns process outputs into a wide range of co-products. These include:

Aggregate – when the sugar beet is lifted by the harvester, some of the stones from the soil are also picked up. These stones are recovered and graded once at the factory and are used in the civil engineering, road-building and construction projects.
Topsoil – when the harvester lifts the beet out of the ground, it also tends to lift some of the soil as well. This soil is recovered and is sold and used as topsoil.
Animal feed – Once the sugar has been extracted from the sugar beet, the pulp is then pressed and generates over 500,000 tonnes of animal feed for a wide range of livestock including cattle, sheep, horses and pigs.
Electricity – British Sugar plc’s advanced manufacturing plants generate steam and electricity to power their own factories. Excess electricity that is generates is then sold to electricity supply companies.
Soil nutrition – Another co-product of the sugar manufacturing process is a liming product. This is marketed under the LimeX brand and helps to improve the quality of soil.
Bioethanol – British Sugar plc was the first company to manufacture bioethanol in the UK, and currently sees 80 million litres produced at their factories each year.



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[Worried Man Blues]

Without bees we all die, sugar.

 

[raymondo]

A reduction in sugar use by 25 % sounds healthy to me. It's the planet looking after us, Shirley,?. Potter in.

 

[beorhthelm]

Done. So annoyed by this

I don’t understand why anyone would lobby for this action. Agriculture industries have adopted the changed practices since the introduction of the ban.

Edit: so it’s the national farmers Union in response to a specific virus but we all know it’s just an excuse to bring them in unilaterally.

we dont "know" that its an excuse. the explanation from Defra is this is specific exemption, limited in area and crop. beet sugar is non-flowering so a negligible effect on bees, and farmers prohibited from growing other crops there for a couple of years.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Done. So annoyed by this

I don’t understand why anyone would lobby for this action. Agriculture industries have adopted the changed practices since the introduction of the ban.

Edit: so it’s the national farmers Union in response to a specific virus but we all know it’s just an excuse to bring them in unilaterally.

I suspect the plan is to make it seem like it's a simple case of the farmers wanting to use it but more likely the pesticide companies pushing for it at a time when their industry is coming under fire especially from eu and in scientists who are gathering more and more evidence of the link between cancer and pesticides.
Could this be a similar scenario to when uranium depleted shells were banned but fortunately we had a war in Iraq to get rid of all ours asap.?
These pesticides are worth billions and as the UK are out of Europe and free to make their own laws let's dump our stock on them and f**k the public and their bees.

 

[vegster]

As far as i'm aware Tate & Lyle use only cane sugar for their products including granulated sugar.
Silver Spoon granulated is made from sugar beet.
Tate & Lyle are the market leaders and produce many products like syrup and treacle, can these be made from beet.
I have only seen beet to any amount grown in Norfolk.
Sugar is also used in thousands of other products like chocolate and fizzy drinks and i know Mars use Tate & Lyle.
Open to be totally corrected but i cannot see how we could ever be self sufficient in sugar.

Mostly because it is not an essential part of our diet, If sugar disappeared overnight we wouldn't die, if we drastically reduced our intake we could be pretty self sufficient with a lower volume consumed annually.

 

[Wardy's twin]

NFU says jump and the DOE/DEFRA say how high.

Same issue with the badger cull, the science says that main cause of TB in cows are other cows due to bad farming practices e.g. making bigger herds and less control of feedstuffs and slurry to increase profits and to reduce cost of meat but wiping out our wildlife.

We need to get some balance back in our wildlife and things like this are just a step back. So if there is a smaller crop we should all eat less of it and that would be a good thing.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

The sugar-making process results in virtually zero waste. British Sugar plc factories operate an advanced manufacturing system that turns process outputs into a wide range of co-products. These include:

Aggregate – when the sugar beet is lifted by the harvester, some of the stones from the soil are also picked up. These stones are recovered and graded once at the factory and are used in the civil engineering, road-building and construction projects.
Topsoil – when the harvester lifts the beet out of the ground, it also tends to lift some of the soil as well. This soil is recovered and is sold and used as topsoil.
Animal feed – Once the sugar has been extracted from the sugar beet, the pulp is then pressed and generates over 500,000 tonnes of animal feed for a wide range of livestock including cattle, sheep, horses and pigs.
Electricity – British Sugar plc’s advanced manufacturing plants generate steam and electricity to power their own factories. Excess electricity that is generates is then sold to electricity supply companies.
Soil nutrition – Another co-product of the sugar manufacturing process is a liming product. This is marketed under the LimeX brand and helps to improve the quality of soil.
Bioethanol – British Sugar plc was the first company to manufacture bioethanol in the UK, and currently sees 80 million litres produced at their factories each year.



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Ok, all interesting stuff.
So my reaction to this is if we grow a lot more beet in our fields and very strict rules applied to sugar content and the use of sugar along with Tate &Lyle (and others) told to use more British beet then we could possibly be more or less self sufficient in sugar.
I'm all for this, beet sounds like a great product and there is no doubt sugar is bad for you especially kids.
Only question left is can all sugar products be made from beet rather than cane , chocolate and cola being the obvious ones as they are so popular, personally I dont like sugar free or diet coke or tea without 1 spoon, but if forced i'm sure I would get used to it.

 

[Barham's tash]

we dont "know" that its an excuse. the explanation from Defra is this is specific exemption, limited in area and crop. beet sugar is non-flowering so a negligible effect on bees, and farmers prohibited from growing other crops there for a couple of years.

True, a lazy expression by me in my reply yet I’m just sceptical that it will be limited to a specific crop and timescale.

I suspect the plan is to make it seem like it's a simple case of the farmers wanting to use it but more likely the pesticide companies pushing for it at a time when their industry is coming under fire especially from eu and in scientists who are gathering more and more evidence of the link between cancer and pesticides.
Could this be a similar scenario to when uranium depleted shells were banned but fortunately we had a war in Iraq to get rid of all ours asap.?
These pesticides are worth billions and as the UK are out of Europe and free to make their own laws let's dump our stock on them and f**k the public and their bees.

Yep you’re possibly right there and I guess farmers possibly struggling with export markets post brexit need to trim costs and come back to intensive farming methods to make ends meet. This would leave them susceptible to pressure/lobbying from pesticide manufacturers as well.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Mostly because it is not an essential part of our diet, If sugar disappeared overnight we wouldn't die, if we drastically reduced our intake we could be pretty self sufficient with a lower volume consumed annually.

Isn't the irony we would use honey?

 

[drew]

Facts about sugar grown in Britain
Britain’s first sugar beet crop was grown and processed in Norfolk over 100 years ago.
Today the homegrown sugar industry involves 3,000 sugar beet growers and supports up to 9,500 UK jobs in the wider economy.
UK beet production occupies over 100,000 hectares of UK farmland.
Sugar grown by British sugar beet growers makes up for around 50% of the UK’s demand for sugar.
In 2017/18 the UK produced over 300,000 tonnes of sugar for export to Europe and places in the rest of the world.
Sugar beet is sourced from local farms in the East of England and it is cultivated, on average, 28 miles from the UK’s four British Sugar plc factories
UK-produced sugar travels an average distance of 168 miles from beet to bulk delivery point at the sites of UK customers.
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All these facts about the sugar beet industry but can you confirm whether bees have a crucial part to play?

 

[Chicken Run]

All these facts about the sugar beet industry but can you confirm whether bees have a crucial part to play?

I’m channeling my inner Nicko 31 and spewing out random C & P’s give me a chance!


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[RossyG]

Without bees we all die, sugar.

Thankfully there are many other methods of pollination, including the wind, other insects etc, so it’s not quite a calamitous as that.