UEFA Cup Draw

[On the Left Wing]

They had the sound turned down in the pub so I didn't have to listen to Gordon Smith's "punditry" at half time.

The one thing I don't miss about living in Scotland is having that wanker on the TV all the time ... still haven't forgiven him for Wembley and now he beams out of the screen like some greased Italian pimp spouting forth more shit than Ron Atkinson, Alan Hansen and Teresa Gorman combined

 

[Sussex on Leith]

The one thing I don't miss about living in Scotland is having that wanker on the TV all the time ... still haven't forgiven him for Wembley and now he beams out of the screen like some greased Italian pimp spouting forth more shit than Ron Atkinson, Alan Hansen and Teresa Gorman combined

That's a hell of a lot of shit...but you're absolutely right. And he makes a packet as agent to half the footballers in Scotland, as far as I can tell, so it's not as if he needs the money for the TV work.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Can someone explain to me the glory of supporting a European GIANT who play in a league packed full of teams who get crowds of about 4,000?

Whenever you see Old Firm crowds going bezerk after they've rammed in the 5th goal in a routine demolition of Livingston, it reminds me of what I will be like in 3 years time, when I play "3 and in" against my 5 year old son when for the occasion, he will be Crystal Palace and I will be Brighton.

I think the point is that you support who you support mate. Alot of people dont understand the glory of playing in a league with glamour ties against Stockport, Chesterfield and Rushden to look forward to. But we do. And we savour every minute of it.

I would unfortunately also have to contend that Celtic are no longer a European 'giant'. Big club, yes. Proud history, yes. Giant, at the moment, no.

 

[Simster]

I would unfortunately also have to contend that Celtic are no longer a European 'giant'. Big club, yes. Proud history, yes. Giant, at the moment, no.

There can't be more than 10 clubs in Europe who *average* more than 60,000 that Celtic get. Two in Spain, 1 in England, maybe 4 in Italy and 3 in Germany.

Which makes their lack of success over the past 15 years (apart from duffing up the likes of Falkirk and Partick in their domestic league to finish second) all the more laughable. The same goes for the comedy club full of pointyheads across the city.

 

[Jambo Seagull]

Can someone explain to me the glory of supporting a European GIANT who play in a league packed full of teams who get crowds of about 4,000?

Whenever you see Old Firm crowds going bezerk after they've rammed in the 5th goal in a routine demolition of Livingston, it reminds me of what I will be like in 3 years time, when I play "3 and in" against my 5 year old son when for the occasion, he will be Crystal Palace and I will be Brighton.

watch it, that's the self-styled "World's Greatest fans" you're slagging off there.

 

[REDLAND]

Well as a Celtic, err, 'follower', i am fecking delighted. It'll give the Bhoys a chance to show everyone that they are a decent team after all. The constant slagging off by English teams reeeallly gets on my nerves; those same fans seem to have conveniently forgottent that Celtic put paid to Blackburn and Liverpool last season.

Damn Straight

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

There can't be more than 10 clubs in Europe who *average* more than 60,000 that Celtic get. Two in Spain, 1 in England, maybe 4 in Italy and 3 in Germany.

Which makes their lack of success over the past 15 years (apart from duffing up the likes of Falkirk and Partick in their domestic league to finish second) all the more laughable. The same goes for the comedy club full of pointyheads across the city.

Err, i dont think you're really making sense here Sim. How does the fact that they have a large and loyal fan base make it laughable that they havent enjoyed much success outside of Scotland? We'd kill for that kind of following

Jambo- i assume you're being sarcastic, and i have to agree with your sentiments. The "world's greatest fans" thing is just plain cheesey

 

[Simster]

Err, i dont think you're really making sense here Sim. How does the fact that they have a large and loyal fan base make it laughable that they havent enjoyed much success outside of Scotland? We'd kill for that kind of following

Jambo- i assume you're being sarcastic, and i have to agree with your sentiments. The "world's greatest fans" thing is just plain cheesey

Loyal you say. So loyal, that they were getting 17,000 in the late '80s and early '90s.

Getting big crowds in the good times is not an indication of loyalty.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Its a little bit before my time Sim, and without checking my stats i'll take your word for it. But didnt all football attendances hit a bit of a low in that period?

 

[Jambo Seagull]

err, no. Rangers were playing in front of 50,000 every week at the time. The crowds for Hearts and a lot of other Scottish clubs were bigger than they are now.The last Celtic game before Fergus McCann took over was in front of 12,000 fans at Parkhead against Dundee. The halcyon days of Lou Macari, Wayne Biggins and Carl Muggleton. They were having shit crowds cos they had a really shit team. Ditto Rangers pre Souness. They regularly got crowds as low as 10-15000 and their lowest ever crowd was in an Anglo-Scottish cup against Chesterfield in fron of 3000 hardy souls. I think you will find that if Celtic put Rangers out of the cup on Saturday (and I think if Celtic score early on it could be 5 or 6-0) you will find crowds at Ibrox as low as 25-30000, something not seen since 1985/86. The fact is that if they do well Rantic get very big crowds. As soon as they do poorly their crowds disappear like snow of a dyke.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Fair enough, 12,000 for Celtic is pathetic, no matter when it was.

My point about "large and loyal" should probably have read "large and passionate" instead. The same passion that seems to have gotten on the wrong side of Simster at some point?

 

[Simster]

I just can't be doing with the big club glory shite when the two clubs have basically ruined Scottish fitba on the back of sectarian bigotry.

 

[Jambo Seagull]

I just can't be doing with the big club glory shite when the two clubs have basically ruined Scottish fitba on the back of sectarian bigotry.

hear hear (even if you are a hibby!)

 

[Simster]

hear hear (even if you are a hibby!)

(with more trophies than Rangers this season.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

I just can't be doing with the big club glory shite when the two clubs have basically ruined Scottish fitba on the back of sectarian bigotry.

They've not done alot to help i'll admit. Dunno if you're a full-on supporter of a Scottish team (Hibs?) Simster, but Jambo obviously is and agrees with you so i'll leave it at that.

However, if you give a shite about Scottish football surely you would want (despite any dislike of the club itself) some success on foreign fields? Would it not help, if nothing else, the image of Scottish football for a team to do well? And when i first posted on this thread i didnt say anything about glory, i just said it would be an opportunity to prove that the team is better than many give it credit for.

Besides, i think we all know that Celtic and Rangers arent the only sides in Scotland with sectarian elements in their midst eh?

 

[Kenhead]

6 Inter Milan v Benfica

Benfica is my forgien team, cum on benfica!

 

[Simster]

Besides, i think we all know that Celtic and Rangers arent the only sides in Scotland with sectarian elements in their midst eh?

Another myth peddled by the old firm. I've only been to Edinburgh once, but follow the fortunes of Hibs because we had a Hibs fan as a lodger, a protestant. At Hearts games, you'll see maybe one or two union jacks, at most. The crowds at their games don't resemble the last night of the proms.

Sectarian bigotry is a western Scottish/Ulster problem.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Another myth peddled by the old firm. I've only been to Edinburgh once, but follow the fortunes of Hibs because we had a Hibs fan as a lodger, a protestant. At Hearts games, you'll see maybe one or two union jacks, at most. The crowds at their games don't resemble the last night of the proms.

Sectarian bigotry is a western Scottish/Ulster problem.

You ever been to Pittodrie Sim?

Man, this could run and run...

 

[Jambo Seagull]

Mick, I'm prepared to admit that I was quite chuffed that Celtic beat Blackburn and Liverpool just because the English media thought these games were a shoo-in for the teams from the self-styled greatest league in the world. I know a few Rangers fans who were (almost) rooting for the Tic because of the English media's arrogance. I also wanted Celtic to win the UEFA cup on the night. I went down the pub and had a thoroughly enjoyable night. I accept your point that it does reflect well on Scotland if Celtic or Rangers or any other club do well in Europe and is good for the co-efficient. Whilst I could just about support Celtic last year in the final, most upstanding non-OF football fans in Scotland find it very difficult to support Celtic because Celtic and to a lesser extent Rangers have made it quite clear by word and deed that they don;t give a flying f*** about the rest of Scottish football. Celtic would jump ship tomorrow if they could. They have hardly any Scotsmen playing for their fans and there is a significant percentage of them who, although born and bred up here regard themselves as Irish. As a result they certainly don't make it easy for non-OF fans to support them in Europe. For me the OF in Europe is kind of a no lose situation. If they do well it reflects well on Scotland, if they lose, we all get to laugh at them!


Sim, don't count your chickens mate!

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Yep, fair enough Jambo. I can totally understand your feelings towards Celtic- i'm personally caught in a bit of a awkward position as on one hand i very much object to the (non)distribution of wealth in the Scottish game, the dominanace of most aspects of the game by just two clubs and the arrogance that comes with it, as well as what you point to as largely a couldnt-care-less attitude towards Scotland as a whole. On the other hand, i was brought up as a Celtic follower, and that kind of, err, indoctrination is pretty hard to shake off.

Hmm. Well i think that brings us to the end of that one.

On another topic, whats your take on Hearts' season so far? Looking at the table yesterday it seems like its been pretty solid so far- although some 'outsiders' would only see the gap between yous and the OF. Summat to build on d'you reckon?