Toughmans question to DK (for those who missed it)

[dougdeep]

What stupid twat uses a silly made up name then.
Doh!

 

[Wozza]

why a club in (?) administration with debts that they do are able to bid silly money for players while we make do with defenders up front.

Leeds United aren't in administration.

And it's not for Dick to comment on other club's finances.

 

[fatboy]

Leeds United aren't in administration.

And it's not for Dick to comment on other club's finances.

It wouldn't take much for him to either say it is not for him to comment on other clubs finances - or to give the answer that Leeds can borrow against their assets - instead of sidestepping the question.

 

[Wozza]

Maybe he should have used this smilie:

:thud:

 

[fatboy]

 

[Harty]

The feedback I received from Albion fans when I went out last night was certainly mixed.
One point that was raised to me was Dick Knight's statement that he and the Directors had put in £7.1million since 1997, there is no reason to doubt these figures but one supporter I met last night wondered what the breakdown actually was because he is led to beleive that Dick Knight has put in £1.3million so who has put up the other £5.8million?
I suggested it would be the likes of Ray Bloom, Kevin Griffiths, Norman Cook etc, but he then asked do amounts invested relate to the current shareholdings?
Does anyone on NSC have the answer?

 

[perseus]

As I understood DK has perusuaded some directors to invest £2 million or so in the Public Inquiry process for Falmer which is why they are locked into the Falmer location at all costs.

This to me represents an investment in the new stadium rather than the running of the club and should be separate as I understood it was to be a different company.

If Falmer comes a cropper, I would not want to see the Directors being paid back out of the gate receipts for their investment.

The club itself has not had this investment of £7 million, although I would not be suprised if it has turned to cost more than expected. Say £5 million ?

For a voting share issue on the club rather than a new stadium, £2 million would represent a value of £2 million out of £7 million (Valuing the current investment at £5 million, excluding the new stadium investment) or say 28% voting rights.

I think I would prefer to invest any money in the new stadium though. The shares would keep their value.

 

[e77]

The feedback I received from Albion fans when I went out last night was certainly mixed.
One point that was raised to me was Dick Knight's statement that he and the Directors had put in £7.1million since 1997, there is no reason to doubt these figures but one supporter I met last night wondered what the breakdown actually was because he is led to beleive that Dick Knight has put in £1.3million so who has put up the other £5.8million?
I suggested it would be the likes of Ray Bloom, Kevin Griffiths, Norman Cook etc, but he then asked do amounts invested relate to the current shareholdings?
Does anyone on NSC have the answer?

Dick has put in £1.7 million (told us at the Fan's Forum) the other week. The loans given by the above were converted to shares a few years back and I would imagine the shares given were relative to the amount loaned. I have no inside knowledge but it would seem logical.

The problem is the Falmer application. Were it not for that we would have broken even in the last few years.

Unless you can buy big (Glazier) or are dishonest you don't make money out of buying a football club so even if and when Falmer appears they are unlikely to get their money back.

A share issue at the moment would be pointless at the moment as there is nothing to buy shares in as the club has next to no assets (although this didn't stop dot coms a few years back).

If the club weren't examing all funding options in the current circumstances they wouldn't be doing their job so if you have the money to spare (big if, granted) and you want to help the club move towards Falmer get your wallet out.

If you have got the money, no problem but if you are opposed to the idea for other reasons please just sit down and shut up !

 

[fatboy]

He said it would cost £300k to do a share issue.

 

[e77]

He said it would cost £300k to do a share issue.

Which considering the appeal has 'only' (in the context of paying £300k for a share issue) raised about 200k so far doesn't make it worth while.

 

[BensGrandad]

Perhaps you would like to take over and give £1.7million of your own money to the club you supposedly love.

If I had that sort of money personally I would but then I would surround myself with people who had sound financial backing and knowledge. So that I didnt have to keep going to the fans begging for money to improve or supplement my investment.

 

[Rangdo]

If I had that sort of money personally I would but then I would surround myself with people who had sound financial backing and knowledge. So that I didnt have to keep going to the fans begging for money to improve or supplement my investment.

And where would you find these people? If they had sound financial knowledge they would know better than to invest their hard earned cash into a business with no assets and no prospect of having any for at least 3 years.

 

[Raphael Meade]

i didn't think dick came across particularly well on the radio, having to resort to having a pop at the callers name/pseydonum (sp??!).

don't get me wrong, i'm 100% behind and have never said a bad word to his name, but i'm with fatboy that he was sidestepping questions (unneccesarily, as there were simple answers) and seemed to be getting irritated quite quickly.

i for one, was dissappointed.

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

Leeds are up to their eyeballs in debt, and one of the reasons for that is the fact that they are still bidding hundreds of thousands of pounds that they do not have, for players that may or may not dig themselves out of the huge hole they now find themselves in. I missed Toughman's call, but I heard the moron named simon masquerading himself as albion fan later on, and DK's response seemed pretty clear cut to me, he doesn't want to run the Albion in way that would see it stretched beyond its means.

If you want to ask the question about why leeds can seek to spend this money it would be better to direct to the football league, who seems to allow certain clubs to ignore the financial reality of their situation. I remember many years ago a transfer embargo being placed on Barnet because of a £500,000 debt and them almost getting thrown out of the league because of it. They were not allowed to buy any players, and they were also not allowed to clear their debts by selling any players, they had to release them for nothing!

IMHO, clubs that are such financial baskets cases such as Leeds, should have to sort themselves out before they can embark on any spending sprees.

DK runs the Albion within its means, keeping debts (mostly due to the planning enquiry) to a minimum, and achieving TWO TITLES, THREE PROMOTIONS and a return home to brighton, on a budget of precisely F**k All. Quite frankly I pity the people who still do not understand this.

rant over!

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

I thought Dick sounded very pissed off on the phone in, frustrated that he's still getting negative questions. OK it's everyone's right to ask whatever question they want, and if DK is chairman then he's got to answer, but i can understand why he gets frustrated, and deep down no doubt sometimes wonder if it's all worth it (it is Dick, it is!)
Of all the 91 other chairman would we swap him for any other (maybe Abromovitch and his money!)? You won't find another one who's a bigger fan of his club - DK maynot be mega rich but whatever he does for this club he does for the right motives, and still he gets stick! Who'd be a club chairman?

 

[Raphael Meade]

Leeds are up to their eyeballs in debt, and one of the reasons for that is the fact that they are still bidding hundreds of thousands of pounds that they do not have, for players that may or may not dig themselves out of the huge hole they now find themselves in. I missed Toughman's call, but I heard the moron named simon masquerading himself as albion fan later on, and DK's response seemed pretty clear cut to me, he doesn't want to run the Albion in way that would see it stretched beyond its means.

If you want to ask the question about why leeds can seek to spend this money it would be better to direct to the football league, who seems to allow certain clubs to ignore the financial reality of their situation. I remember many years ago a transfer embargo being placed on Barnet because of a £500,000 debt and them almost getting thrown out of the league because of it. They were not allowed to buy any players, and they were also not allowed to clear their debts by selling any players, they had to release them for nothing!

IMHO, clubs that are such financial baskets cases such as Leeds, should have to sort themselves out before they can embark on any spending sprees.

DK runs the Albion within its means, keeping debts (mostly due to the planning enquiry) to a minimum, and achieving TWO TITLES, THREE PROMOTIONS and a return home to brighton, on a budget of precisely F**k All. Quite frankly I pity the people who still do not understand this.

rant over!

a very nice summation

 

[BensGrandad]

And where would you find these people? If they had sound financial knowledge they would know better than to invest their hard earned cash into a business with no assets and no prospect of having any for at least 3 years.

Which is the exact reason why we as a club cannot atract investors at the moment. When Falmer is granted they will be coming forward.

I know that I shall get slated for my opinion but nobody can give me a good reason why I should donate money to a PRIVATE COMPANY and its directors who will be the main benefactors eventually. This is nothing to do with being a supporter it is the DUTY of the board to keep the club afloat however they see fit. Not that of the supporters of the club to bail out the company.

 

[London Irish]

Dick has put in £1.7 million (told us at the Fan's Forum) the other week. The loans given by the above were converted to shares a few years back and I would imagine the shares given were relative to the amount loaned. I have no inside knowledge but it would seem logical.

The problem is the Falmer application. Were it not for that we would have broken even in the last few years.

Unless you can buy big (Glazier) or are dishonest you don't make money out of buying a football club so even if and when Falmer appears they are unlikely to get their money back.

A share issue at the moment would be pointless at the moment as there is nothing to buy shares in as the club has next to no assets (although this didn't stop dot coms a few years back).

If the club weren't examing all funding options in the current circumstances they wouldn't be doing their job so if you have the money to spare (big if, granted) and you want to help the club move towards Falmer get your wallet out.

If you have got the money, no problem but if you are opposed to the idea for other reasons please just sit down and shut up !

Excellent post - sums it up in a nutshell. In a perfect world these words should be put in large point size on the front of NSC so when the same question gets asked at every few days' interval, the answer is there.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I thought Dick sounded very pissed off on the phone in, frustrated that he's still getting negative questions. OK it's everyone's right to ask whatever question they want, and if DK is chairman then he's got to answer, but i can understand why he gets frustrated, and deep down no doubt sometimes wonder if it's all worth it (it is Dick, it is!)
Of all the 91 other chairman would we swap him for any other (maybe Abromovitch and his money!)? You won't find another one who's a bigger fan of his club - DK maynot be mega rich but whatever he does for this club he does for the right motives, and still he gets stick! Who'd be a club chairman?

It's just a shame the poor bugger wasn't even allowed an hour to savour the fine victory over Leeds. No wonder he sounded pissed off. Maybe he shouldn't have gone on there in the first place. Doubt he'll do it again in a hurry. And SCR IMHO should do what the Argus do with their letters page: insist on full names and addresses of callers. Not really on to let anonymous cowards spout bollocks at a guest. Else the end result is you end up with no guests. And at some point, no listeners. Starting to really question the value of the phone-in now. Great hearing feedback from people on their way back from the game, but too many cretins who just like the sound of their own voice for my liking. Aural equivalents of Kev The Ape.

 

[timbha]

The feedback I received from Albion fans when I went out last night was certainly mixed.
One point that was raised to me was Dick Knight's statement that he and the Directors had put in £7.1million since 1997, there is no reason to doubt these figures but one supporter I met last night wondered what the breakdown actually was because he is led to beleive that Dick Knight has put in £1.3million so who has put up the other £5.8million?
I suggested it would be the likes of Ray Bloom, Kevin Griffiths, Norman Cook etc, but he then asked do amounts invested relate to the current shareholdings?
Does anyone on NSC have the answer?

Cook's and Griffiths' investments' were a few hundred thousand (not sure about Bloom). I'm not so sure that £7.1m has been invested. I thought the initial statement was that £7m has been spent against income of £5m - presumably the £5m came from season ticket sales, sponsorship, sale of BZ, play off income (less players' bonuses and Mil Stad fireworks!), prizes, etc.

Wonder if the proceeds from the sale of the Goldstone are included?

and don't I recall £2m being mentioned as available "for team improvements"?

It's a shame that Toughman's eloquently put question went over ours and Dick's heads!

Dick has done a fantastic job, is a decent man and should be revered as a true Albion legend, but is he the man to single handedly take us to the next level?