[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[WATFORD zero]

The only thing stopping the country from having a Labour Government will be the left of the Labour Party and the Unions. Starmer will have to be as strong as Blair to win and will no doubt be under more attack from his own party than from the opposition when he announces his manifesto

You can always live in hope

 

[Rdodge30]

Of course he'll have a manifesto.
I'll bet you a large sum of money that the Labour Party form the next government.

As they are 1 to 5 on in the betting I’m sure you would , I’m not inclined to take evens against

They really should form the next Government but if he bends too far to the left to appease his own party then he will blow it - he should stick to his guns and to hell with MCluskey and the like. To be honest I think he will hold his nerve, he certainly doesn’t look like re admitting Corbyn anytime soon

 

[Rdodge30]

Watford Zero - absolutely not what I’m hoping for, simply what I expect

 

[nicko31]

The party conference in October will see the unveiling of ideas I’m not sure there will be much if anything before then.

To be honest it’s a gamble expecting to be elected by simply not being the conservatives, my view is that Starmer will have very electable policies but they will not be acceptable to the left of his own party and the second he starts to develop a manifesto that could actually get the Labour Party elected, the Labour Party will eat itself and the internal meltdown/shitshow will very soon put the polls into a tailspin. ‘‘Twas ever thus”

Starmer pretty keen to face down the hard left.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

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To be honest they are as rare in Labour now as sensible Tories in Sunak's cabal.

The difference is Starmer has faced down the far left nutters, whereas he Tories have embraced the right wing nutters. In normal times you win elections from the centre, not by embracing marxism or fascism.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Have you ever stopped to consider why Corbyn was unelectable? He was subjected to massive propaganda by unelected, non-tax paying Press Barons. He was slandered as a racist, anti-semitic allotment owner who rides a bicycle. The abuse was overwhelming and would have crushed anybody. Treatment reminiscent of the way Tony Benn was vilified, another one who terrified the Establishment.

Tony Blair turned out to be to the right of Margaret Thatcher so what was the point?

Ironic. Central to the anti-Corbyn campaign was his alleged links to the IRA. The right wing media made a huge song and dance about this. Gammon everywhere were labelling him as a traitor.

And whilst all this was going on, the real traitors were the ‘Conservative friends of Russia’ group with their lavish dinner party fund raisers and trips to Moscow (with one of the leave campaign chiefs), all seeing them take over £5m in oligarch donations for their party in order to push Putin policies such as Brexit. Brexit was a stunning victory for Putin’s foreign policy. No wonder so many backed his judgment when he decided to invade the Ukraine.

That said, for all his qualities, Corbyn was not leadership material, he was a back bench campaigner (devoid of a sense of humour, personality and the sort of judgement a leader should have) and should have stayed there.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Ironic. Central to the anti-Corbyn campaign was his alleged links to the IRA. The right wing media made a huge song and dance about this. Gammon everywhere were labelling him as a traitor.

And whilst all this was going on, the real traitors were the ‘Conservative friends of Russia’ group with their lavish dinner party fund raisers and trips to Moscow (with one of the leave campaign chiefs), all seeing them take over £5m in oligarch donations for their party in order to push Putin policies such as Brexit. Brexit was a stunning victory for Putin’s foreign policy. No wonder so many backed his judgment when he decided to invade the Ukraine.

That said, for all his qualities, Corbyn was not leadership material, he was a back bench campaigner (devoid of a sense of humour, personality and the sort of judgement a leader should have) and should have stayed there.

No he wasn’t a firebrand leader of the old school. He wanted to lead by consensus not by rhetoric and charisma. Blair and Johnson both had that and look where that took us.

We are all entitled to our opinions but the one thing he did for me was actually give me hope for a better country for my kids and their kids. It’s the hope that kills you, as they say.

 

[chickens]

Ironic. Central to the anti-Corbyn campaign was his alleged links to the IRA. The right wing media made a huge song and dance about this. Gammon everywhere were labelling him as a traitor.

And whilst all this was going on, the real traitors were the ‘Conservative friends of Russia’ group with their lavish dinner party fund raisers and trips to Moscow (with one of the leave campaign chiefs), all seeing them take over £5m in oligarch donations for their party in order to push Putin policies such as Brexit. Brexit was a stunning victory for Putin’s foreign policy. No wonder so many backed his judgment when he decided to invade the Ukraine.

That said, for all his qualities, Corbyn was not leadership material, he was a back bench campaigner (devoid of a sense of humour, personality and the sort of judgement a leader should have) and should have stayed there.

Agree with most of what you have said here, however I have to add that there has been a lot of worryingly soft rhetoric from Corbyn on the Russia-Ukraine conflict, where he has openly stated he would not arm Ukraine and would instead engage with Putin to broker a peace deal.

Given that Putin has openly ridden roughshod over every previously negotiated peace deal, I don’t see how that’s a credible position. I don’t see that as his being in Putin’s pocket, but I do see it as political naivety.

The Conservative Party however, does appear to have been heavily funded by Russia, and there should be some light shone on exactly what has gone on there.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Agree with most of what you have said here, however I have to add that there has been a lot of worryingly soft rhetoric from Corbyn on the Russia-Ukraine conflict, where he has openly stated he would not arm Ukraine and would instead engage with Putin to broker a peace deal.

Given that Putin has openly ridden roughshod over every previously negotiated peace deal, I don’t see how that’s a credible position. I don’t see that as his being in Putin’s pocket, but I do see it as political naivety.

The Conservative Party however, does appear to have been heavily funded by Russia, and there should be some light shone on exactly what has gone on there.

Corbin was replaced as leader in 2020 and suspended from the PLP in October of that year. Not sure why you would quote his views on the Ukraine invasion of 2022 but as an avowed pacifist how do you think he should have responded?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Starmer pretty keen to face down the hard left.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

To be honest there are as rare in Labour now as sensible Tories in Sunak's cabal.

The difference is Starmer has faced down the far left nutters, the Tories have embraced the right wing nutters. In normal times you win elections from the centre, not by embracing marxism or fascism.

" There is an inch of difference between the Tory party and the Labour Party but it is within that inch that we all live "
( Richard Neville...Oz co-founder )

 

[nicko31]

Ironic. Central to the anti-Corbyn campaign was his alleged links to the IRA. The right wing media made a huge song and dance about this. Gammon everywhere were labelling him as a traitor.

And whilst all this was going on, the real traitors were the ‘Conservative friends of Russia’ group with their lavish dinner party fund raisers and trips to Moscow (with one of the leave campaign chiefs), all seeing them take over £5m in oligarch donations for their party in order to push Putin policies such as Brexit. Brexit was a stunning victory for Putin’s foreign policy. No wonder so many backed his judgment when he decided to invade the Ukraine.

That said, for all his qualities, Corbyn was not leadership material, he was a back bench campaigner (devoid of a sense of humour, personality and the sort of judgement a leader should have) and should have stayed there.

The last 3 Tory GE wins have been fuelled by Russian dirty money, then there was Brexit - those that try and dig are suppressed

Must watch this week and they didn't even touch the Lebedev shitstorm. You can see why Johnson is so keen on Ukraine to try and airbrush his history.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/strippers-spies-russian-money-dispatches

 

[chickens]

Corbin was replaced as leader in 2020 and suspended from the PLP in October of that year. Not sure why you would quote his views on the Ukraine invasion of 2022 but as an avowed pacifist how do you think he should have responded?

I was referencing the post I quoted which discussed Corbyn’s treatment in the press. If he had still been Labour leader, he would have provided yet another open goal for our famously balanced press.

Not criticising the current incarnation of Labour at all, Starmer seems competent and trustworthy (at least in comparison to the alternatives) but honestly, if Corbyn believes that Putin’s signature on a peace deal is worth anything then I have some magic beans I can sell him for his allotment.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was referencing the post I quoted which discussed Corbyn’s treatment in the press. If he had still been Labour leader, he would have provided yet another open goal for our famously balanced press.

Not criticising the current incarnation of Labour at all, Starmer seems competent and trustworthy (at least in comparison to the alternatives) but honestly, if Corbyn believes that Putin’s signature on a peace deal is worth anything then I have some magic beans I can sell him for his allotment.

Just announced that the equalities commission is no longer monitoring Labour, satisfied that Starmer has fixed what Corbyn had allowed to fester. A reminder here that all parties have nobbers among their ranks, but those around Labour who are antisemitic nobbers had been given a license to flourish and pontificate by Corbyn.

And I'm happy to condemn Corbyn, rather than state that: "let me be clear, I deplore all forms" of cockwomblery.

 

[nicko31]

Just announced that the equalities commission is no longer monitoring Labour, satisfied that Starmer has fixed what Corbyn had allowed to fester. A reminder here that all parties have nobbers among their ranks, but those around Labour who are antisemitic nobbers had been given a license to flourish and pontificate by Corbyn.

And I'm happy to condemn Corbyn, rather than state that: "let me be clear, I deplore all forms" of cockwomblery.

Sunak's attempts recently in PMQs to try and link Starmer to Corbyn are looking more and more desperate

 

[WATFORD zero]

Sunak's attempts recently in PMQs to try and link Starmer to Corbyn are looking more and more desperate

I'm just surprised that this cabal haven't tried to use the 'their all the same' excuse that their ever more desperate supporters roll out constantly

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sunak's attempts recently in PMQs to try and link Starmer to Corbyn are looking more and more desperate

He needs to look more closely at his own Deputy Chairman.

 

[rogersix]

Too early to publish a manifesto but a total vacuum of alternatives to the current mess being put forward now. The inference is that Starmer has no more idea of what to do than the gov whilst there is a massive opportunity to show that labour have a different way forward (if of course they do…..). If they can’t do that now, when will they ever?

so you'll vote lib dem then? i usually do

 

[The Clamp]

The last 3 Tory GE wins have been fuelled by Russian dirty money, then there was Brexit - those that try and dig are suppressed

Must watch this week and they didn't even touch the Lebedev shitstorm. You can see why Johnson is so keen on Ukraine to try and airbrush his history.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/strippers-spies-russian-money-dispatches

Yep. Im surprised Johnson hasn’t had the ol’ poison tipped umbrella treatment for being Russia’s biggest traitor.

That would be a fitting end to the bastards’ life. Done in by one of his own (the Russians) while out on a jog. They’ll have to be quick though. He only jogs from the car to the front gate.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The last 3 Tory GE wins have been fuelled by Russian dirty money, then there was Brexit - those that try and dig are suppressed

Must watch this week and they didn't even touch the Lebedev shitstorm. You can see why Johnson is so keen on Ukraine to try and airbrush his history.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/strippers-spies-russian-money-dispatches

Decades and decades later, we are still castigating those who were too close to Nazi Germany in the lead up to WW2, including prominent members of the royal family.

I watched the first part of that documentary and whilst it confirmed what I suspected, it still came as a shock to hear the links and influences spelled out. What’s even more shocking is that the right wing press and BBC don’t appear to be interested in this sort of stuff, despite the fact we are in a proxy war with Russia. If this documentary contained similar allegations about a possible ‘Labour friends of Sinn Féin’ group, they’d be calling for Starmer’s head.

 

[nicko31]

Decades and decades later, we are still castigating those who were too close to Nazi Germany in the lead up to WW2, including prominent members of the royal family.

I watched the first part of that documentary and whilst it confirmed what I suspected, it still came as a shock to hear the links and influences spelled out. What’s even more shocking is that the right wing press and BBC don’t appear to be interested in this sort of stuff, despite the fact we are in a proxy war with Russia. If this documentary contained similar allegations about a possible ‘Labour friends of Sinn Féin’ group, they’d be calling for Starmer’s head.

The BBC as we know has been infiltrated by the Tories, they want it to be castigated from all sides. I'm very wary of falling into that trap, its still a great institution and is under attack and being hollowed out.

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

The BBC as we know has been infiltrated by the Tories, they want it to be castigated from all sides. I'm very wary of falling into that trap, its still a great institution and is under attack and being hollowed out.
Are you sure, I’m constantly being told by a member of my family, the BBC is woke and a front for left wing propaganda and should be defunded.