Tommy Fraser

[sten_super]

Again, I agree in principle. I don't expect young players to come into the team and hit the ground running from their debut. But Tommy Fraser played SEVENTY-EIGHT times for us. In 78 matches I'd expect to see more evidence of talent than I did, even only in glimpses.

Now, I'm not massive fan of the youth system, but in Elphick, Cox, Virgo, Lynch etc, even we (as a mediocre third division club) have produced players that HAVE shown talent and worth to the team from very early in their career AND maintained it. For me, those sort of players are the MINIMUM standard we should be looking at now, and Fraser is a long way below guys like that.

I think your eye for a player is in fact pretty good. I think it's probably the extreme terms (as expressed by edna earlier) that give rise to the strong responses you receive.

It's certainly a fair point about Fraser's 78 games. I suppose my view was he was (probably) fairly cheap and may have been worth a punt for another season. We certainly have to draw a line somewhere, and taking Robinson as a completely random example, we probably came to that conclusion later than we should, so perhaps the Fraser case is a response to that.

I think, in your evaluation of our youth products, you are being overly harsh. I would agree with Cox, but of the others, Virgo was sold for £1.5m (okay he wasn't worth that, but was a decent Championship player all the same), Lynch has had a reasonable season in the Championship, and Elphick has been linked with much bigger clubs, so I think they are more than we can expect (certainly as a minimum) from a mid-table League 1 club. Which is what we are at the moment (and were at best when these players joined the youth scheme).

 

[El Presidente]

No, my final straw with Fraser came when I realised he would never be good enough for us - which, I'd like to point out, was a LOT earlier than practically everyone else who's admitting it now. I just think the disgusting criticism of Dick Knight left an even nastier taste in the mouth and said a lot more about him than it did Knight.

I'm afraid TCB that your posts come across as someone who is a desperate attention seeker who thinks that by being NSC's version of a TalkSport DJ and inciting controversy that you are adding to healthy debate, or perhaps you just wish to stir up a binfest with everything you write.

You seem more concerned about how insightful you are with your polarised views in writing off Tommy Fraser's career so early than giving an objective assessment of his career, your comments about FDM are in a similar vein in overstating his contribution.

As one of the people on here who can string a sentence together I think you are letting yourself down by taking such a stance. Perhaps you have been watching Strictly Come Dancing too often and watching the pantomime behaviour of the judges on that show, who knows.

FWIW I thought TF was an okay midfield player, who was often played out of position on the left which compromised his ability to contribute to the game. I did feel he tended to drift out of games too often, and preferred to play the sideways rather than forwards ball which blunted our attacking options. But to put him down as one of the worst ever midfield players in our history suggests you have the memory of a goldfish, there has been some utter shite over the years.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Wasn't it Wilkins who praised Fraser as one of the few players who could execute management instructions. So whilst he was doing what the management asked as opposed to what the South Stand demanded - he becomes a shit player.

When I first saw Fraser I thought he looked fine - he had energy and was brave enough to keep wanting the ball. What he lacked it seemed to me was the first touch essential for a decent midfield player.

What then did happen was he seemed to be working on his game because his touch was improving. He is a young bloke - his ability is not fixed in time. He was becoming a better player. Of course it is not a steady path upwards, form and fitness come to bear.

I think the club could have recognised that - but Slade - who knows more about football than me - choose not to go with him. It was probably a close call. I would have given him more time.

This was a young bloke, learning his trade, showing signs of promise, who showed energy and commitment. To write him off is asinine. To try and make out he is one of the worst midfield players to play for our club shows an arrogance that is breathtaking in its stupidity.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think Micky's put undue pressure on the boy by making him captain.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

I think it shows that the kid's attitude is spot on, Tom (his outburst against Knight excepted, borne out of frustration surely), and his effort is never less than 100%, which sets an example to others. I can see why Adams has done it - I thought his best game for us was the away leg of the Tin Pot Southern final, when he was brilliant with our backs against the wall, down to 10 men. That's something that every team will appreciate.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Not the worst not by a country MILE.

 

[El Presidente]

He has been a regular (although not a certainty) in the first team for the last three seasons. His style of play is not eye catching, but I wish him all the best at PV and hope he has a successful career.

He did make a decent contribution towards us staying up at the end of last season, and it is a shame he was given so little credit for it.

There does seem to be resentment towards DK for the way he treats players who have come through the ranks, but it wasn't a character assassination by TF.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'm afraid TCB that your posts come across as someone who is a desperate attention seeker who thinks that by being NSC's version of a TalkSport DJ and inciting controversy that you are adding to healthy debate, or perhaps you just wish to stir up a binfest with everything you write.

You seem more concerned about how insightful you are with your polarised views in writing off Tommy Fraser's career so early than giving an objective assessment of his career, your comments about FDM are in a similar vein in overstating his contribution.

As one of the people on here who can string a sentence together I think you are letting yourself down by taking such a stance. Perhaps you have been watching Strictly Come Dancing too often and watching the pantomime behaviour of the judges on that show, who knows.

FWIW I thought TF was an okay midfield player, who was often played out of position on the left which compromised his ability to contribute to the game. I did feel he tended to drift out of games too often, and preferred to play the sideways rather than forwards ball which blunted our attacking options. But to put him down as one of the worst ever midfield players in our history suggests you have the memory of a goldfish, there has been some utter shite over the years.

What are you? A lecturer or something?*






*
*I endorse your assesment whole-heartedly

 

[El Presidente]

*
*I endorse your assesment whole-heartedly

Of TF or TCB?

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

I will go along with TCB here,Fraser was never good enough if we want to progress,I think Slade got it spot on with the players he released.

 

[bhadebenhams]

I will go along with TCB here,Fraser was never good enough if we want to progress,I think Slade got it spot on with the players he released.

Fraser wasint good enough perhaps' for next season but he was WRITE to criticice Dick Knight (LIAR!) when he left.

Remember, you can't trust ANYONE with a BEARD, just ask JESUS (our lord)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Of TF or TCB?

All of it.

 

[clippedgull]

I think Slade got it spot on with the players he released.

I think Sullivan was unlucky, but Kuipers obviously needed proper competition and hopefully Smith will give him just that.

 

[Storer68]

He wasn't really very good. If that was what was considered good enough by Wilkins, I'm not suprised he got the boot. and adams

 

[Steve Foster]

What people are forgetting is that Fraser was only 21 and compared to the previous season made a big jump in performance.

Who is not to say that he would have improved even further if he'd stayed on our books for another season?

 

[El Presidente]

Who is not to say that he would have improved even further if he'd stayed on our books for another season?

TCB?

 

[Steve Foster]

TCB?

What's TCB?

Surely TBC?

 

[sten_super]

What's TCB?

Surely TBC?

The Complete Badger

 

[Scottiee7]

To be honest i liked him, thought he put 100% effort in, and he gave me his boots at stockport game, took me through the whole crowd on the pitch, top man good luck to him.