[Football] To all the Southgate haters / wrong again and again and again **SOUTHGATE NOW RESIGNED**

[chaileyjem]

For the record, let me assure you that I'm quite genuine about praising Southgate's achievements. England have had much success under his managerial level. But for me, that's not enough.

The 18 pages of this thread in one sentence.

 

[DJ NOBO]

In fairness, you're probably right. The purist and the pragmatist will rarely agree on the fundamentals. For me, it's also about falling in love with the football a side plays, not winning by default because you've bored the other side and your own fans to death.
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory."
- Danny Blanchflower

As I've pointed out in previous posts, it is quite possible to win tournaments with attacking football, at least more attacking than England are currently playing which is not admittedly not hard. Spain are going into tomorrow night's game as favourites playing a more expansive style of football with effective use of wingers. So it's never a straight choice between playing football that's easy on the eye or winning tournaments. There's an argument to be made that if you do the former, you're more likely to get the latter.

But for what it's worth, we're probably closer than at first, so thank you for the detailed reply which clarifies a few things. The football that I'd prefer wouldn't be gung ho throwing bodies desperately forward. To lose 5-4 would mean that there'd be at least 5 occasions where we'd have lost control of the ball, so I wouldn't be in favour of that. Besides, even the most attacking sides will often press - defend from the front, attack from the back. It's more to do with a fluid style and clever movement off the ball. Of all the players England have, Cole Palmer would be the one I'd liked to have seen a lot more of this tournament.

As regards your lengthy replies to other posters on the other topics, there's no point in repetition so that's fair enough. And clipping your post to the crux probably allows us to talk about the main thing rather than whether a 3rd place Nations League finish in the past outweighs a relegation in the present among other things. But it's always been a game of opinions.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the balance of praise/criticism that's acceptable. There are probably different lines in the sand here, but as long as it's backed up with argument and there's civility and respect despite disagreement, robust debate about football on a football message board shouldn't ever be off limits. Nuance is important and whilst I'm not likely to put on any kid gloves for typing about Southgate any time soon, I'll always try and look for things to agree on rather than the opposite.

Finally, I really hope we win tomorrow and Southgate will get more appreciation from everyone, myself included. I'll be more than happy to do that. Despite what the mischievous title of the thread might suggest, it wouldn't be a case of being "wrong" as the poor performances earlier in the tournament haven't remotely suggested an England win. But equally, if it doesn't happen, I won't feel vindicated, just disappointed that it hasn't happened mixed with the nagging doubt that someone else might have got them there with a different style. But that's for tomorrow. In the meantime, enjoy the game and may the best team win!

If that‘s not possible, 120 minutes of frustration and pain culminating in the worst team winning would also be fine

 

[herecomesaregular]

For the record, let me assure you that I'm quite genuine about praising Southgate's achievements. England have had much success under his managerial level. But for me, that's not enough.

The 18 pages of this thread in one sentence.

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Nah, it's enough for me to just win it in my lifetime thanks! Get the hoodoo off our back. We can win the upcoming WC in "style".

 

[sakooshi]

The 18 pages of this thread in one sentence.

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Nah, it's enough for me to just win it in my lifetime thanks! Get the hoodoo off our back. We can win the upcoming WC in "style".

A bit like how Brighton got into the EPL. Sometimes the end justifies the means.

 

[nicko31]

If we beat Spain on Sunday then fair enough. We've stank the tournament out apart from against the Dutch and some will argue we got lucky with the pen as well as it should've been a Dutch corner instead of goal kick which we went up other end and scored the winner! Its the quality we've got that's got us through, not the tactics of Gareth. Beat Spain and then we'll see if critics shut up!

We don’t go to tournaments to make friends, we go there to win games.

 

[Triggaaar]

Spain smashed their group, scored 5 goals and have had knockout games against Germany and France.

If it was about finishing top, where’s Spain’s bit of luck??*



*getting England in the final! Ha ha

And we wouldn't have finished top if Denmark had beaten Serbia. Not exactly down to us.

 

[herecomesaregular]

And we wouldn't have finished top if Denmark had beaten Serbia. Not exactly down to us.

If my granny had balls she'd be my grandad

 

[Triggaaar]

If my granny had balls she'd be my grandad

About as factually correct as saying that Southgate is a tactical genius

 

[hart's shirt]

Nah, it's enough for me to just win it in my lifetime thanks! Get the hoodoo off our back. We can win the upcoming WC in "style".

As winning the WC is harder than winning the Euros, it's unlikely that we'd win that in style if we're not showing much of it in this.

I know what you're saying though - a trophy in any England fans lifetime is a big thing. But was Le Tournoi not enough for you?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

If my granny had balls she'd be my grandad

Or possibly, a bowling coach.

 

[herecomesaregular]

About as factually correct as saying that Southgate is a tactical genius

It was a joke/reference re Liam Brady, thought any Albion fan would get that

 

[herecomesaregular]

As winning the WC is harder than winning the Euros, it's unlikely that we'd win that in style if we're not showing much of it in this.

I know what you're saying though - a trophy in any England fans lifetime is a big thing. But was Le Tournoi not enough for you?

One was assuming that Southgate wouldn't be the manager, hence a release of stylish play - which everyone automatically seems to assume will happen!

 

[drew]

A bit like how Brighton got into the EPL. Sometimes the end justifies the means.

Not sure I'm reading that right but it comes across as if we played dire football to grind out results to get promoted! My recollection is that 2015/16 and 16/17 were two great seasons of football, the only downside being the hangover after promotion for the last three games!!

 

[Triggaaar]

It was a joke/reference re Liam Brady, thought any Albion fan would get that

I know what it is. Not exactly the first time it's been posted here

The point is, why were you posting it at that point? The argument went that we got an easy draw because we won our group (ie, we earned the easy draw). But Spain won their group and were rewarded with Germany and France, and half the reason we won our group in the first place was luck.

 

[Hometownglory]

If we win tomorrow the footballing world will go into meltdown, purely based on the style alone. North of the border will be particularly dreading the prospect of an England win. If football does indeed come home and I was GS, I'd leave on a high.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We don’t go to tournaments to make friends, we go there to win games.

Exactly.and when we win tomorrow if I hear that lot saying “oh but we didn’t play as well as Spain” I’ll be telling them to F off …WE WON!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Exactly.and when we win tomorrow if I hear that lot saying “oh but we didn’t play as well as Spain” I’ll be telling them to F off …WE WON!

This afternoon, ITV showed the 66 final, in full, in colour. It wasn’t a great game, missed chances on both sides, etc but we won.
That’s football.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Criticised for sticking with Pickford - proved em wrong
Criticised for picking shaw - proved em wrong
criticised for his subs, brings on Palmer and watkins who assist and score the winner. previously Brought TAA and Toney on to take pens who both converted (v SwizzZZ)
He stuck with Kane and Bellingham despite all the 'experts' saying they should be subbed who both went on to score (v Slovakia)
won 3 knockout matches from losing positions
2 Euro Finals
1 WC Semi
Time to hold up your hands and admit you were wrong about Southgate

Well, this has aged well

Same old same old

First good team we play and we stink the place out, same tactic of sitting back and slow subs/weak selections.

 

[bluenitsuj]

Criticised for sticking with Pickford - proved em wrong
Criticised for picking shaw - proved em wrong
criticised for his subs, brings on Palmer and watkins who assist and score the winner. previously Brought TAA and Toney on to take pens who both converted (v SwizzZZ)
He stuck with Kane and Bellingham despite all the 'experts' saying they should be subbed who both went on to score (v Slovakia)
won 3 knockout matches from losing positions
2 Euro Finals
1 WC Semi
Time to hold up your hands and admit you were wrong about Southgate

You were saying ..........

 

[Driver8]

Looks like we were right all along.