Three Lions In The Dirt

[seagulls4ever]

Why do people always say England have no talent coming through? We've got a lot of very good young talent coming through at the moment: Josh McEachren, Nathan Delfouneso, Andy Carroll, Jack Rodwell, Jack Wilshire, Joe Hart, Adam Johnson, Jordan Henderson, Kieran Gibbs, Phil Jones, Marc Albrighton, Ravel Morrison and MORE. All of these players A LOT of potential. The future is bright in my eyes.

 

[The Large One]

The point I'm arguing is this IS as bad as we've been since the Taylor years.

There's a perception that we have class players and that they're somehow better than, say, England's barren periods of the 70s or first half of the 90s.

The facts are that Rooney's output is worse than Lineker / Shearer and Platt and he just doesn't score against the big sides, while there's no evidence to suggest Rio, Gerrard and Lampard are any better than, say, Adams, Ince or Beardsley.

Yet you're mostly pinning this at Capello's door, calling him as clueless as Taylor.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm not saying that at all. Things were clearly shit under McLaren - he didn't beat a "big" nation and failed to qualify for Euro 2008. But nobody pretended that McLaren was a big-name manager as they did with Cappello.

McLaren was sacked and, I'd argue, so should Cappello be. In 1994 we turned to Venables and it worked. There are many things Redknapp has in common with Venables, so I'd argue he needs to be the next permanent manager.

Some people are beginning to talk about Sven in whistful tones. That says it all.

 

[The French Mistress]

The best man to take us forward is still a foreigner. No english managers are good enough tactically to get us play the way we need to be which is the short passing game. I wish i could say the best manager for England will be English but he isn't, it's a foreigner who has the tactical know-how to get the team passing the ball on the ground. Not quite sure who this johnny foreigner is yet but give it time...

But you're succumbing to the Prem, where not only are all the decent players foreign, so are the managers. Easy way out,

 

[The Large One]

Cappello is as clueless as Graham Taylor was

Yet you're mostly pinning this at Capello's door, calling him as clueless as Taylor.

I'm not saying that at all.

What?

Things were clearly shit under McLaren - he didn't beat a "big" nation and failed to qualify for Euro 2008. But nobody pretended that McLaren was a big-name manager as they did with Cappello.

McLaren was sacked and, I'd argue, so should Cappello be. In 1994 we turned to Venables and it worked. There are many things Redknapp has in common with Venables, so I'd argue he needs to be the next permanent manager.

Some people are beginning to talk about Sven in whistful tones. That says it all.

Back in the early 90s, Venables would have had something to work with. Capello doesn't, nor did McLaren, nor would Redknapp. The fact that McLaren is not a 'big name' is beside the point.

England has one of the world's best managers in place right now, and cannot get them playing well. THAT is a prime concern. You think a chancer who has won - on a national level - one FA Cup and hardly any international experience as a manager is the answer? I challenge ANY manager in the world to get that lot playing in a successful way.

We are ten years and growing behind the best countries in Europe. It's going to take another generation at least for any success to be garnered on the international stage - and that's assuming the FA has the balls to admit it in the first place that what has been doing has been so badly mis-directed.

Words absolutely fail me when people demand Harry Redknapp be installed as England manager - his prime qualification (though for me, it's a major hindrance) being that he is English. For me, it's the same mentality as those who grizzled at the Bournemouth game to 'get it forward' purely because it's 'the way we play' and that's what they're used to without realising things actually need to change. Dramatically.

 

[Mr Banana]

I can never tell whether you're being serious or not, but I am enjoying Capello's press conferences at the moment, in a macabre kinda way. He genuinely doesn't care anymore, and his English appears to be getting worse. His tactics were awful in the World Cup and even worse last night. The bastard lovechild of Martin Hinshelwood and Jeff Wood could do a better job than him for the next two years, but the FA can't pay him off, they lost enough on Wembley.

 

[keaton]

Some people are beginning to talk about Sven in whistful tones. That says it all.

Some people are talking seriously about Rednapp being England manager. That says far more

 

[Icy Gull]

. He genuinely doesn't care anymore, and his English appears to be getting worse..

Are you confusing "doesn't care" with a grim realisation that he's working with sub standard players and is at a loss as to what to do? I have no idea if he's a quitter or not, if he's not he does have reason to be a bit downbeat as we are also rans on the world stage these days.

 

[KneeOn]

Why don't we get a 17 year old managing England, who would drive teh team on with a desire to win and who has spent the best time in their footballing life watching cultured football

I'm sick of hearing this "i don't care about England attitude"... bullshit does no one care. If no one cared, 85 thousand wouldn't have been at the ground yesterday with millions watching and wanting a win. Friendly or not. The worst time in my Albion following career was the Slade diabolical (as much as I love that man!). Not once did I ever say I didn't care about the Albion. Why the same mentality with England?

What i opened this post with still stands, we need a cultured manager who cares (not a f***ing former footballer because they do NOT always make good managers, Poyet is the exception to the rule) and more frequent training camps with a core 30 players, 11 of which will establish them selves as the starting line up based on their ability to play in the system implimented (preferably a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-5-1 with wingers who can drift in and full backs who press up) and a game plan each game to wait, be patient and not just hoof it up to Crouch/Gerrard because it doesn't work. This 30 man training camp will have 3/4 players who won't make it to the next one and will be fighting just for a call up to the camp - our real reserves, and 16/7 other players who fight for a place on the bench and the better of these 15 will aim to impress enough to unsettle a starting 11 player.

All this shit about "england not having the talent" can be answered in three words. Adam El Abd.

He was banded about in different positions, playing a game he just couldn't play and he was shocking. Good coaching from Poyet transformed him. The more frequent training camps will leave us with a better group of players who get to know each other. Yes it'll take longer but even if its once a month of once every 6 weeks, just two days mid week where players are brought together and trained, we might make a team of decent players rather than a piss pot collection of talented individuals.

Further evidence? Alan Navarro. He was shithose under Slade, and was turned in to our rock and one of our best players.

Its not just Capello. I do think he's a club manager however. He needs constant daily contact to impose his system and his thinking.

Its not just the coaches, because we have one of the best groups of coaches in the world. Its the mentality that English football holds and theres no point in saying "change that and England will get better" because its not going to happen. Lets scrap this club Wembley shit, this middle hospitality tier and get fans who will make noise (because we've seen how if fans don't get behidn players it can get a bit lonely on the pitch at withdean - i don't care how full, good and fancy wembley is you need to have a buzz to translate on the pitch and get the body AND mind pumped naturally rather than just artificially).

As for the future: These training camps should have the best talent we can call up, 5 players who won't get picked but train with the young payers in to the system and working the English game.

Just IMO though.

 

[Pavilionaire]

What?

England has one of the world's best managers in place right now, and cannot get them playing well. THAT is a prime concern. You think a chancer who has won - on a national level - one FA Cup and hardly any international experience as a manager is the answer? I challenge ANY manager in the world to get that lot playing in a successful way.

One of the world's best managers?! Club management is very different to international management. Cappello lost the team at the World Cup and is a lame duck.

Redknapp may be many things but he has a knack of getting the best out of his players and getting them to play for him. Crucially, he also has a knack of giving effective half-time teamtalks and making game-changing substitutions. His teams also play attractive, spirited football.

Getting Tottenham from the foot of the Premiership to humbling the Champions Of Europe in a couple of years is a staggering achievment, as was winning the FA Cup with Pompey and bringing through the Golden Generation at West Ham.

There are no guarantees in football but we stand a better chance of winning Euro 2012 with him at the helm than Cappello or anyone else that may be willing to take the job.

I don't blame Cappello entirely for where we are now. He's taken a bad team and then taken it backwards. But to move forwards we need to sack him.

 

[vegster]

And in 18 months time we will be hearing, " Redknapp does not know what he is doing at international level...... we need someone who can work with the players and who understands how to change formations during a game......"

"we need a foreign coach like Hiddink "

 

[The Large One]

One of the world's best managers?! Club management is very different to international management.

If you were going to cite Redknapp as your chosen hero, you ideally should have stopped there, and sought to consider someone else.

 

[tonymgc]

Why don't we get a 17 year old managing England, who would drive teh team on with a desire to win and who has spent the best time in their footballing life watching cultured football

I'm sick of hearing this "i don't care about England attitude"... bullshit does no one care. If no one cared, 85 thousand wouldn't have been at the ground yesterday with millions watching and wanting a win. Friendly or not. The worst time in my Albion following career was the Slade diabolical (as much as I love that man!). Not once did I ever say I didn't care about the Albion. Why the same mentality with England?

What i opened this post with still stands, we need a cultured manager who cares (not a f***ing former footballer because they do NOT always make good managers, Poyet is the exception to the rule) and more frequent training camps with a core 30 players, 11 of which will establish them selves as the starting line up based on their ability to play in the system implimented (preferably a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-5-1 with wingers who can drift in and full backs who press up) and a game plan each game to wait, be patient and not just hoof it up to Crouch/Gerrard because it doesn't work. This 30 man training camp will have 3/4 players who won't make it to the next one and will be fighting just for a call up to the camp - our real reserves, and 16/7 other players who fight for a place on the bench and the better of these 15 will aim to impress enough to unsettle a starting 11 player.

All this shit about "england not having the talent" can be answered in three words. Adam El Abd.

He was banded about in different positions, playing a game he just couldn't play and he was shocking. Good coaching from Poyet transformed him. The more frequent training camps will leave us with a better group of players who get to know each other. Yes it'll take longer but even if its once a month of once every 6 weeks, just two days mid week where players are brought together and trained, we might make a team of decent players rather than a piss pot collection of talented individuals.

Further evidence? Alan Navarro. He was shithose under Slade, and was turned in to our rock and one of our best players.

Its not just Capello. I do think he's a club manager however. He needs constant daily contact to impose his system and his thinking.

Its not just the coaches, because we have one of the best groups of coaches in the world. Its the mentality that English football holds and theres no point in saying "change that and England will get better" because its not going to happen. Lets scrap this club Wembley shit, this middle hospitality tier and get fans who will make noise (because we've seen how if fans don't get behidn players it can get a bit lonely on the pitch at withdean - i don't care how full, good and fancy wembley is you need to have a buzz to translate on the pitch and get the body AND mind pumped naturally rather than just artificially).

As for the future: These training camps should have the best talent we can call up, 5 players who won't get picked but train with the young payers in to the system and working the English game.

Just IMO though.

And you're spot on mate.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If you were going to cite Redknapp as your chosen hero, you ideally should have stopped there, and sought to consider someone else.

I'm not saying he's my "chosen hero", I'm saying he's arguably the best candidate for the job now. I'd love Wenger to get the gig, or even Mourinho - they would be my "chosen heroes", but it isn't going to happen.

The fact is that suitable candidates tend to be thin on the ground at times like this and when the shortlist is drawn up not many candidates will have ticked more boxes than Redknapp.

When the time comes the usual rubbish names will emerge - Curbishley, Hoddle, perhaps even McLaren.

I accept that Redknapp is not everyone's cup of tea, although I think he'll get the majority of England fans behind him.

 

[Brovion]

And in 18 months time we will be hearing, " Redknapp does not know what he is doing at international level...... we need someone who can work with the players and who understands how to change formations during a game......"

"we need a foreign coach like Hiddink "

Absolutely! In fact let's list them all, you can guess what they'll be"

"He's a good club manager but he's proved he hasn't got what it takes at international level."
"This England team is the worst I've ever known."
"Totally clueless, he just stand there on the touchlines waving his arms."
"Why can't he make effective substitutions?"
"He's too old-fashioned. We need someone who understands modern coaching methods."
"He's lost the dressing room."
"Dreadful appointment, said so all along. Real step backwards after the Italian flair of Capello."

And of course the timeless classic ....

"We've got the players. We should be doing better than this."

 

[andywhing4england]

But you're succumbing to the Prem, where not only are all the decent players foreign, so are the managers. Easy way out,

Eh?

 

[Gwylan]

Some people are beginning to talk about Sven in whistful tones. That says it all.

Sven got us to three QFs in a row - we haven't reached one since he left us. I said at the time that people will be looking back on the Sven days with affection and I'm pleased to be proved right on that one.

If Redknapp is the answer, then it must be a bloody stupid question. His next management job will probably be Ford Open Prison First XI

 

[vegster]

Sven got us to three QFs in a row - we haven't reached one since he left us. I said at the time that people will be looking back on the Sven days with affection and I'm pleased to be proved right on that one.

If Redknapp is the answer, then it must be a bloody stupid question. His next management job will probably be Ford Open Prison First XI

Indeed Sven was pretty good but, when things went wrong on the pitch the cry went up that Sven had no "Passion " like an English manager would have.. so what we get then is either an English manager with passion but limited technical nous or some johnny foreigner who can read a game and has numerous formations in his head but lacks the language skill or passion to get the message across to monosylabic english players.... and so the wheel turns and turns and turns....

 

[Pavilionaire]

Sven's England sides invariably went backwards after half-time. He had his moments and we haven't drubbed a top side since we murdered Germany 5-1 in Munich 9 years ago.

 

[KneeOn]

Sven's England sides invariably went backwards after half-time. He had his moments and we haven't drubbed a top side since we murdered Germany 5-1 in Munich 9 years ago.

I was only allowed to watch the matches up until half time at that age, my dad made the exception though. One of the best nights of my life.