The Worst Profession to Presently Be In ?.

[e77]

The Thatcher government's right to buy policy was well intended, but the housing stock not being replaced helped created the house price bubble. Throw in the deregulation on her watch with the lack of governance on the part of Major and Blair and you find us where we are now.

To answer the original question, it depends on the timing. Financial services is taking the hit at the moment but for everyone who loses their job in the city, someone had to make their sandwich at lunchtime, someone had to clean the office and someone booked their holiday.

All the above means a reduction in tax receipts which may lead to public service cutbacks.

So, in the end, no one or no industry should be complacent as we are all in this together.

 

[Acker79]

I'd like to nominate funeral director with a part time gig as post-match radio phone in show host. They seem to be getting a lot of hate tonight...

 

[Brighton1]

I know this is going to come across as sounding very heartless - and that's not my intention. But this is a genuine question.

Why is a mortgage broker needed? If the market for mortgages is reformed and simplified (to eliminate ninety percent of the "products" that were created by bankers who were simply trying to reach every last corner of the sub-prime market), getting a loan to buy a house could return to the state it used to be ... with borrowers dealing directly with lenders. And if people could start once again to see a house as simply a place to live, rather than a rung on a "ladder" to illusory wealth, the world would be a much more secure place.

The bubble has burst. Mortgage broking was part of the bubble - a phenomenon that was born in the 1980s and has now had its time.

In other words, I agree with you, Uncle Spielberg. It's definitely the worst trade to be in right now.

It never ceases to amaze me the naivety of many people and your comment above (Why is a mortgage broker needed?) is a testament to that . I am a broker and therefore probably biased but I will give you just one example here how this view will cost many a fortune. I have an Estate Agent sharing part of my office and whilst I was in there office and they were on the phone I decided to deal with someone who walked in. Fortunately for her I was bold and asked her if she had spoken to anyone about mortgages, she replied "Oh yes I bank with Halifax and they have sorted it all for me". I asked her why did she not see a broker? Her reply was that she did not really know what they do and had some form of miss trust but did not know why. I then said I will give you a 5 minute demo ans she agreed. I input her details into my sourcing system and showed her where Halifax stood in comparison to the other lender willing to lend to her. They were actually the very dearest with a 5 year fixed rate at 7.49% and a £995 fee. I recommended the C&G at 6.09% and the same fee, it worked out over the 5 years, the Halifax were £12,000 more expensive. I signed her up and she now can see what benefits there are in a broker! This is one example but there are many more people don't know about such as exclusive products. These are products that are offered via mortgage clubs and can be from high street lenders i.e. Abbey National that are better than what you could get through a branch. I could go on but hopefully this gives you a small insight.

 

[sod1]

football league 1 managers.... some are treading on rocky ground

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Manager of Brighton & Hove Albion FC

 

[Chicken Runner61]

It never ceases to amaze me the naivety of many people and your comment above (Why is a mortgage broker needed?) is a testament to that . I am a broker and therefore probably biased but I will give you just one example here how this view will cost many a fortune. I have an Estate Agent sharing part of my office and whilst I was in there office and they were on the phone I decided to deal with someone who walked in. Fortunately for her I was bold and asked her if she had spoken to anyone about mortgages, she replied "Oh yes I bank with Halifax and they have sorted it all for me". I asked her why did she not see a broker? Her reply was that she did not really know what they do and had some form of miss trust but did not know why. I then said I will give you a 5 minute demo ans she agreed. I input her details into my sourcing system and showed her where Halifax stood in comparison to the other lender willing to lend to her. They were actually the very dearest with a 5 year fixed rate at 7.49% and a £995 fee. I recommended the C&G at 6.09% and the same fee, it worked out over the 5 years, the Halifax were £12,000 more expensive. I signed her up and she now can see what benefits there are in a broker! This is one example but there are many more people don't know about such as exclusive products. These are products that are offered via mortgage clubs and can be from high street lenders i.e. Abbey National that are better than what you could get through a branch. I could go on but hopefully this gives you a small insight.

I don't disagree with what you say but isn't what you say the reason why we are in so much shit at the moment.

Its like everything these days there is too much choice and the lenders and brokers have created a diversity of products that is so complex many of them don't understand their own business. The other day I had a financial advisor telling me how the crisis was caused by sub prime loans in the USA AND second mortgages here for people to buy second homes for investment. Thirty seconds later he was telling me how I should invest in a buy to let property sipps scheme for my pension !!!!!

In August last year I had another big bank advisor telling me to buy shares with them which I thought was crazy as the signs of a fall was easily forseeable then. I left sharpish when he suggested thatI reckon I would have lost 50-30% had I followed his advice.

The problem with all these financial advisors is that they can never really understand their clients REAL financial position they can only brush the surface. Most clients don't understand that their income is what they earn not what they can borrow and their expenditure is based on the latter. Most clients will over value their income and understate their expenditure and many brokers and lenders eager to make a deal cover up the cracks and lend more than they should.

Now the crunch has come we have a much more realistic lending system which is based on the ability of the loan being paid back. There are far less loans on offer and fewer get rich quick schemes. You also can't easily borrow more to pay back what you already owe and the chances of your property going up in value to pay/cover your debts is dead in the water

The point actually being is that currently there is so little on offer you don't need a morgage broker just a realistic view of your finances, your projected income and your expectations for the future. If you don't know that you shouldn't be trusted with a loan of any sort!

If we decide to return to the chaos of a wide loan market we then will need mortgage brokers again to "unlock" the secrets that they hide in maze of offers that are supposed to be better but in fact are basically the same and will lead again to the mess we are in.

And don't get me started on utility bills and car insurance offers!!!!

 

[Brighton1]

I don't disagree with what you say but isn't what you say the reason why we are in so much shit at the moment.

Its like everything these days there is too much choice and the lenders and brokers have created a diversity of products that is so complex many of them don't understand their own business. The other day I had a financial advisor telling me how the crisis was caused by sub prime loans in the USA AND second mortgages here for people to buy second homes for investment. Thirty seconds later he was telling me how I should invest in a buy to let property sipps scheme for my pension !!!!!

In August last year I had another big bank advisor telling me to buy shares with them which I thought was crazy as the signs of a fall was easily forseeable then. I left sharpish when he suggested thatI reckon I would have lost 50-30% had I followed his advice.

The problem with all these financial advisors is that they can never really understand their clients REAL financial position they can only brush the surface. Most clients don't understand that their income is what they earn not what they can borrow and their expenditure is based on the latter. Most clients will over value their income and understate their expenditure and many brokers and lenders eager to make a deal cover up the cracks and lend more than they should.

Now the crunch has come we have a much more realistic lending system which is based on the ability of the loan being paid back. There are far less loans on offer and fewer get rich quick schemes. You also can't easily borrow more to pay back what you already owe and the chances of your property going up in value to pay/cover your debts is dead in the water

The point actually being is that currently there is so little on offer you don't need a morgage broker just a realistic view of your finances, your projected income and your expectations for the future. If you don't know that you shouldn't be trusted with a loan of any sort!

If we decide to return to the chaos of a wide loan market we then will need mortgage brokers again to "unlock" the secrets that they hide in maze of offers that are supposed to be better but in fact are basically the same and will lead again to the mess we are in.

And don't get me started on utility bills and car insurance offers!!!!

Response to a couple of statements that you have made to which I either disagree or want to debate -

1) Its like everything these days there is too much choice and the lenders and brokers have created a diversity of products that is so complex many of them don't understand their own business

Lets get something that is very important clarified! Brokers do not create products!!! We simply assess our clients needs and circumstances then make our recommendations....It is the lenders that make up the products....

2)The point actually being is that currently there is so little on offer you don't need a mortgage broker.

If my client who's situation was in my post had listened to you she would be £12,000 worse off guaranteed.

3)The other day I had a financial advisor telling me how the crisis was caused by sub prime loans in the USA AND second mortgages here for people to buy second homes for investment. Thirty seconds later he was telling me how I should invest in a buy to let property sipps scheme for my pension !!!!!

I would agree with what your financial adviser has said in relation to the main cause of the credit crunch. In respect of what you should now do i.e. buy a property to let etc that is down to your attitude to risk, which I hope your adviser ascertained from you prior to his/her recommendation.. What is wrong with that?

4) You say that most clients over estimate their income and underestimate the expenditure.

Is that the fault of the broker/adviser? Surely Jo public should bare some sort of responsibility, we should not be accountable for someone giving us false information. Our advice is based on what we are told just like a Doctor, if you mislead a Doctor as to your symptoms there is a chance you will be given the wrong medication...Would you blame the Doctor?

5) The problem with all these financial advisors is that they can never really understand their clients REAL financial position they can only brush the surface.

Why not? We complete thorough fact finds and budget planners so I can't agree with you.

Thankyou for giving your opinions, it's good to discuss/debate as personally I would be gutted if any of my clients so undervalued what I have done for them... maybe now you have had my response you may have a slightly different opinion? But either way I would rather have an opportunity to respond to some of your statements to give another point of view.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

You are taking that too personally.

1) Its not your fault there are so many products on offer but do you agree there are so many it creates a complicated market and that some people find it confusing and therefore are obliged to use a broker?

2) You may have found her a good deal but then again maybe not.
3 years back I took out a commercial loan at 2% above base rate taking it to about 8%. It sounded pretty poor against other rates on offer and a FA said he could get a fix for 5 or 6% for 5 years. I couldnt wait and as I had an instant offer I took the offer on the table. Now interest rates are down to 1.5% that deal is looking pretty good.

If that deal was recent she is now paying 6.09 for five years when now she can get a SVR for 3-4 % You only saved her £12k if the exit fees were the same or more than the C&G and she couldn't have got out for less.

I have no doubt that at the time you acted correctly and you gave her good advice based on the products at the time and I did say that there are times when a broker is needed.

3) Would you join a Madoff scheme now or save with a Icelandic bank knowing what you know now? I suppose its down to your attitude to risk and presently that would be ??


4) Er..... have you forgotten what got your profession in this mess? Wasn't it lending to people who had no chance of paying back what they borrowed?
You and I are paying dearly for this.

5) Again taken too personally - The whole system became too complex and banks have lent more than they should to people they shouldn't have. They also have over sold insurance and taken to gambling on derivatives and commodities all in the name of profits. This all led to a housing boom that could not last so banks and brokers lent to another lower level causing the crash. Its a complete mess and we now have banks in trouble trying to save banks in trouble - the best description I heard is that its like two drunks both trying to help each other stand up.

We need to start new banks and go back to lending and saving basics like we had 20 years back. Whether there will be a place for brokers I can't say
but returning to the system we had last year won't help and I doubt will ever happen until the lessons we learn now get forgotten. I will say that the best IFAs will survive and will be better for it as there will be far less competition.

 

[csider]

lets all shed a tear for mortgage brokers.........

 

[Del Boy]

League one footballers. it's got to play on their conscionse ripping off loyal fans with shit every week and getting paid about £100,000 a year to do it - they have really got it tough. I could lump the f***ing ball forward to no-one or f*** everything up at the back.

 

[jordanseagull]

Um, anyone with the name Micky Adams, who works, yes i did say works, for brighton fc?

 

[7:18]

How is it for teachers right now in the UK? Just getting my license here in Canada, wondering what the job prospects are over there?

 

[BensGrandad]

They are not people over here are seeing adverts for opportunities in Canada and applying to go there.

 

[Brighton1]

You are taking that too personally.

1) Its not your fault there are so many products on offer but do you agree there are so many it creates a complicated market and that some people find it confusing and therefore are obliged to use a broker?

2) You may have found her a good deal but then again maybe not.
3 years back I took out a commercial loan at 2% above base rate taking it to about 8%. It sounded pretty poor against other rates on offer and a FA said he could get a fix for 5 or 6% for 5 years. I couldnt wait and as I had an instant offer I took the offer on the table. Now interest rates are down to 1.5% that deal is looking pretty good.

If that deal was recent she is now paying 6.09 for five years when now she can get a SVR for 3-4 % You only saved her £12k if the exit fees were the same or more than the C&G and she couldn't have got out for less.

I have no doubt that at the time you acted correctly and you gave her good advice based on the products at the time and I did say that there are times when a broker is needed.

3) Would you join a Madoff scheme now or save with a Icelandic bank knowing what you know now? I suppose its down to your attitude to risk and presently that would be ??


4) Er..... have you forgotten what got your profession in this mess? Wasn't it lending to people who had no chance of paying back what they borrowed?
You and I are paying dearly for this.

5) Again taken too personally - The whole system became too complex and banks have lent more than they should to people they shouldn't have. They also have over sold insurance and taken to gambling on derivatives and commodities all in the name of profits. This all led to a housing boom that could not last so banks and brokers lent to another lower level causing the crash. Its a complete mess and we now have banks in trouble trying to save banks in trouble - the best description I heard is that its like two drunks both trying to help each other stand up.

We need to start new banks and go back to lending and saving basics like we had 20 years back. Whether there will be a place for brokers I can't say
but returning to the system we had last year won't help and I doubt will ever happen until the lessons we learn now get forgotten. I will say that the best IFAs will survive and will be better for it as there will be far less competition.

1) No, it's not just about the number of products, after assesing a client we then have to assess which products are actually available prior to our recommendation. I have seen many people going to a bank wasting there time to find out that they would not lend, when if they came to me I would get it right firt time. Also did you know many Bank staff are un-qualified? They get around this at the start of a meeting when they give you an Initial Disclosure Document, it will say "You will not receive advice or recommendation from us, we give information only for you to make an informed choice" Did you know this will give you no right to complain in the future? NO ADVICE GIVEN! INFORMATION ONLY!!! will be your response..You are fully protected through a broker as you will be given a recommendation.. Please I would love to know why anyone would rather go direct to a bank!

2) Lets get this right, I DID get my client the best deal available 100%! "maybe not" suggests you are not convinced.. Have you had a bad experience of a broker? I have done it for nearly 20 years and a big client bank, I have a theory that if you treat people right they will come back and that has been the case. Saying she can get an SVR is wrong, this is why I guess you are not a broker. SVR's have nearly all vanished and at my clients LTV there are none (90%). I'm not being rude but if you want to challenge advice you need to know your facts.

3) You are correct it is down to attitude to risk.

4) Agree, but I have never submitted an application that I was unsure if my client would not be able to keep up the payments on. What a Bank does you cannot blame a broker.

5) Agree, and Banks are guilty of dressing up products to make them look appealing when in fact that may not be the case... But again the Banks should take the flack not a Broker!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

1) No, it's not just about the number of products, after assesing a client we then have to assess which products are actually available prior to our recommendation. I have seen many people going to a bank wasting there time to find out that they would not lend, when if they came to me I would get it right firt time. Also did you know many Bank staff are un-qualified? They get around this at the start of a meeting when they give you an Initial Disclosure Document, it will say "You will not receive advice or recommendation from us, we give information only for you to make an informed choice" Did you know this will give you no right to complain in the future? NO ADVICE GIVEN! INFORMATION ONLY!!! will be your response..You are fully protected through a broker as you will be given a recommendation.. Please I would love to know why anyone would rather go direct to a bank!

2) Lets get this right, I DID get my client the best deal available 100%! "maybe not" suggests you are not convinced.. Have you had a bad experience of a broker? I have done it for nearly 20 years and a big client bank, I have a theory that if you treat people right they will come back and that has been the case. Saying she can get an SVR is wrong, this is why I guess you are not a broker. SVR's have nearly all vanished and at my clients LTV there are none (90%). I'm not being rude but if you want to challenge advice you need to know your facts.

3) You are correct it is down to attitude to risk.

4) Agree, but I have never submitted an application that I was unsure if my client would not be able to keep up the payments on. What a Bank does you cannot blame a broker.

5) Agree, and Banks are guilty of dressing up products to make them look appealing when in fact that may not be the case... But again the Banks should take the flack not a Broker!

1) Let me first say I have used a broker I know on two occasions and he got me what I wanted. At that time I needed someone to guide me through the maze of offers and to get me the loan I needed. But now its different there is a lot less on offer and I also think I know exactly what I want and where to get it from too. I will ask him to look at it but I doubt he will be able to offer it as I don't think he deals with "that" company but I will ask.
I never said that brokers were unnecessary just not so necessary at the present time.

2) No I never had a bad experience with a broker and I am not one. When I last checked you could get a SVR especially if you remortgaged and had decent equity. I wasn't picking holes in what you sold your client and without knowing the exact details I couldn't. I was merely pointing out that in the past few months it has been better to be on SVR rate and the following link suggests that and we have have more cuts since then.

Abbey, Alliance & Leicester SVR mortgages 'could save customers money' - Money News

3) we agree

4)We agree but not all brokers are like you.

5) If the banks do get sorted out will they offer so many products again?
Without so much choice will we need brokers?

We shall see

 

[7:18]

They are not people over here are seeing adverts for opportunities in Canada and applying to go there.

oh well good luck to them, scarcely a job around these parts at the moment, although it is a big country and I'm sure they are looking at the West. Thanks for that though.