The ultimate REFERENDUM thread

[Maldini]

However, it is a 'would rather not live with them, but we're screwed without them'.

That's just it.We don't know if we are 'screwed'.I'm willing to take a chance.I'm willing to lose something to gain something else.

 

[sir albion]

lets end these free movement lies that we have to sign up to it no matter what

when the EU Free Trade Agreements were made with Mexico and South Korea did they involve free movement? Do the Free Trade Agreements waiting to be ratified with Columbia and Peru include free movement? Do the EU Free Trade Agreements under negotiation with Australia,New Zealand,Singapore,Vietnam,Thailand, Philippines,Malaysia,Ecuador,India or Japan insist on free movement.Do the extensive trade agreements with Canada(CETA) or USA(TTIP) also include free movement?

The EU can insist all they want,the fact is a Brexit vote is also a vote to end free movement to the UK.

If this does occur I await the first jackass who will commit political suicide and will openly say they will ignore the referendum result and will enter into negotiations with the EU to continue free movement.

I'd suspect the reason why the EU wanted free movement was for the wealthy countries to get overrun with migrants because the birth rates are so low in most European countries.They don't care about cultural divides etc as they only care about cheap labour and population increases.
That's my conspiracy theory

 

[Maldini]

As a professional economist I don't know a single colleague who thinks we wouldn't be worse off if we left the EU. In the FT survey of 100 top economists in December 2015, 76 thought that the UK would be worse off in the medium term, 18 said no difference and 8 said we'd be better off. It's not complete consensus but for a notoriously divided profession it's not bad.

Coming back to your point,I wonder how many economists thought the disaster that is the Euro was a good idea.

 

[Maldini]

Flippin eck,I'm part Italian,born in the UK(O really Maldini we had no idea) yet I'm more concerned about being over run with foreigners than people who are 100% British.I don't get it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Sorry I edited to add the bonus question above. Also curious how you think Canada has a 99% free trade deal?

As you pointed out, we are not Norway and neither are we Canada.

I said 99% of tariffs and provided a link to a source you might believe the European Commision.

Completely agree we are the 5th largest economy in the world second biggest in Europe and a major political and military power we are far more likely to get a better deal than Norway/Canada combined.

 

[beorhthelm]

...As an aside the EU will have the UK over a barrel with Britain's EU financial services surplus.

thats true, because on an exit the EU nations wouldnt have any need of any financial services from London, all the expertise will move en-masse to Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt.

 

[Soulman]

Nearly £10million pounds of taxpayers’ money is to be spent sending a leaflet to every UK home warning about the dangers of a “Brexit”, prompting a Cabinet row over the use of public money.
The Government announced on Wednesday night that it was spending more than £9.3million on the pamphlet warning that an EU exit would put jobs at risk and increase the price of household goods.
Boris Johnson and other Eurosceptic ministers accused the Government of using public money to "scare people" ahead of the EU referendum.
Mr Johnson, who attends Mr Cameron’s political Cabinet, called the leaflet a “complete waste of money” and said that it is a “biased and hysterical warning”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...yers-to-fund9m-leaflet-to-every-home-warning/

 

[Captain Sensible]

I said 99% of tariffs and provided a link to a source you might believe the European Commision.

Completely agree we are the 5th largest economy in the world second biggest in Europe and a major political and military power we are far more likely to get a better deal than Norway/Canada combined.

It's without Financial services (no country has free trade Financial Services with the EU, also Financial services is a huge chunk of UK exports to the EU) and also still has EU restrictions on food, agriculture etc. Also Canada had to allow all EU states visa free entry (again with the free movement, although yes not to work). But I'll have to concede I don't know too much about the deal, although I don't believe the deal has been ratified by the EU and there is a doubt it will be agreed by certain member states like Romainia for example where Canada is dragging its heels on allowing visa free entry.
Again, Canada isn't negotiating a Brexit and starts from a much better platform.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Good debate NSC, although I must get some sleep. Cheers all.

 

[pastafarian]

Firstly it's not Financial Services, and that's a large chunk of the UK's exports to the EU. Secondly it's not been ratified so it's an unagreed deal. Lastly things like meat and food have restrictions on them. Also Canada had to allow all EU countries visa free entry amoungst other things.

its removal of 98% of tariffs though
Visa free entry for travel where you still have to prove if asked that you intend to return home and are financially self dependant for the duration of your visit is not the same as free movement to live and work

 

[5ways]

I can't believe you are trying to suggest the variables involved in the promotion race are at all analogous to the future path of dozens of economies across Europe. What were the opinions of those 76 'top economists' on joining the Euro? If the shoe was on the other foot I would hope I wasn't quite so gullible in believing opinion which is notoriously unreliable sourced from a biased pro EU paper.

You've successfully managed to avoid answering the question. To avoid so much expert opinion you must have very selective focus. Can the Out campaign offer such a group of such economists? No - because there isn't one, because Brexit is bad for the economy. This isn't a Cassandra situation - it is the majority opinion.

 

[pastafarian]

Good debate NSC, .

it is a good debate
its a shame that one of the major contributors has been banned and excluded from the debate though because someone felt the need to complain about their opinion

 

[Lincoln Imp]

its removal of 98% of tariffs though
Visa free entry for travel where you still have to prove if asked that you intend to return home and are financially self dependant for the duration of your visit is not the same as free movement to live and work

I agree with your main point here. Can you have a word with Iain Duncan Smith, who has announced that because the Turks are getting visa-free travel to the EU, the EU's borders are being extended from Greece to Syria. He obviously thinks that visa-free and free movement are the same. Either that or he is scaremongering.

 

[GT49er]

You alluded that the taking back of laws most important. Maybe they are to you. But they aren't worth taking back by gambling our economy IMO.

The economy, the economy, the economy!

The financial sector......the City of London.....the banking industry........

Yeh, yeh, yeh, they're important, but nowhere near as important as they think they are. So, the economy dips a bit as we celebrate our freedom and independence? That's a good deal as far as I'm concerned. It probably won't make any noticeable difference to most of us anyway.

 

[Maldini]

When Turkey are allowed into the EU as a reward for helping the rest of Europe with the Syrian immigrants, that will be 70million of them with access to living and working in the UK.

 

[Maldini]

I'm the head of a large UK company employing 60.000 workers and I think it's good for the UK economy to stay in the EU (actually it's brilliant for me because 55.000 of my workers are eastern europeans and they cost me on average 15% less than british workers) Get it?

 

[Maldini]

Are there any talented young polish people left in Poland to drive the country forward?

 

[The Rivet]

The Maldini 'Hat-trick'!

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its the economy dummy

 

[pastafarian]

I agree with your main point here. Can you have a word with Iain Duncan Smith, who has announced that because the Turks are getting visa-free travel to the EU, the EU's borders are being extended from Greece to Syria. He obviously thinks that visa-free and free movement are the same. Either that or he is scaremongering.

ill give him a call

we both know its the first tentative steps to full Turkey integration some day down the line.
its interesting to note i havnt heard one person say Turkey fully in the EU would be a good thing(apart from i suspect some Turks)

most people seem to have an uncomfortable shiver when this eventuality is mentioned.