The Obese, Drunks and Junkies

[Devon Seagull]

I don't dispute this but you simply can't stop being a drug addict or an alcoholic, it doesn't work like that. I tell you one way of creating jobs though, stop letting Australians and New Zealanders having work visas here, I wouldn't mind except this ancient facility is not reciprocated and I cannot understand why it is antipodeans can take jobs here. I know that in my own profession there are a lot working here as they make a lot more money than they would at home.

most Aussies and especially New Zealanders I know work in pubs or clubs, probably not the best job for someone with an alcohol problem.

 

[sir albion]

That's a fairly typical response from somebody who doesn't have much idea. Nobody agrees more than me that people should get a free ride but tell me, what would you do for a living if you lost your job ? Clean cars ? Wash dishes ? One of the drawbacks which is something all administrations miss is that people won't work when it puts them out of pocket. Suppose companies were 'encouraged' to have pre school facilities ? What about more realistic training programs ? I wasted a year getting an HNC which has served no real purpose. I could have done an MCSE in a fraction of that time and a fraction of the cost but no government is prepared to give money directly to Microsoft despite the fact they themselves extensively use their products.

Retraining in this country is a joke, we get what the government thinks we need and not what commerce needs. It's happy to get people to university even if the student never gets a job using their degree. As long as they pay back what their education costs. Of course whilst they are in full time they are not unemployed so that will massage the figures.

The same thing applies though, people like you speak this hyperbole but as I say, jobs just aren't as plentiful as a lot of people seem to think.

Im getting the idea that you have been in the same boat as these retards?Lets face it many of us have had bloody tough times but most of us bounce back and work harder to reach our goals in life.

Most of these drunks have become drunks because of bordom while not working,shame we can't cull humans

 

[NMH]

Reading your comment, your idea of subsidising companies who employ rehabilitating employees, would be a good idea, but that person would need to be willing, physically and mentally able to work in the first place. Another idea would be that if a person takes a low paid job in order to get back into the work place the government would contribute extra.
Your suggestion that by employing a person would be too occupied to inject or take a drink is unfortunately not the case. If a person is addicted then their body/brain tells them that they need their fix what ever the circumstances might be.

Well yes, my suggestion is just an off-the-top one and can't cover all the situations. Many would say withdraw benefits to addicts or lock them up ..... and who's to say that wouldn't be a reasonable suggestion?

The point is though, to try and make a dent in the crazy affair as it sits now, and get a productive Kingdom that works from the base on up.

 

[tubaman]

Sorry, I've got very little time for those who have contributed to their own downfall because of their eating or other social (unsocial) habits. They should sort their mess out themselves and not rely on others to do it for them.

 

[User removed 4]

Two things, firstly until there is sufficient funding for addicts of all strains nothing will change, it's a speculate to accumulate situation. As far as immigration goes (after all the aim is to get people working) whilst a person with an EU passport can work here we in turn can work in their country, is is an option. However the same does not apply to Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe or Nigeria and yet their citizens can work here quite legally. Time to rationalise our Commonwealth connections. One thing that quite amazes me is that I a Canadian relative who is a qualified teacher, she's working here as she can't get a job in her own country. I wonder just how many people from Commonwealth countries can do likewise ?

It's worth mentioning that a 'working holiday' can last up to four years.

I'd far rather have aussies/kiwis/canadians here than people from the EU.

 

[tubaman]

Yes DC has singled out a section of society that is easy to attack but that is their own fault and at least it is a start. Just don't get me started!!

 

[DerbyGull]

Sorry but if you stick it up your nose, inject it in your veins or shove it down your throat, I don't want to pay for you when you can't get by anymore. Very harsh but very true. I try and look after myself and I have a heck of a lot of issues that I manage to deal with, without social care, so why can't they.

People may ask what they could do to get back to work, maybe they should be asking why previous governments thought it was appropriate to pay for them to feed their habits through dishing out benefits instead of spending the money to help rehabilitate them. The press are focusing on the taking away of benefits not the spending to get them back to work.

Good work DC, in my view this is a tough call but the right one.

What a towering beacon of humanity you are. Just because you can get by and you're alright then everyone must follow you're example. How about a little humility on you're part, be grateful of the position you are in and stop attacking the most desperate people in our society. You are bringing nothing to the table, just blaming previous governments and not proposing anything original.

Kill their benefits after 6 weeks. I am sure you will see them all finding work then.

Or breaking into your house to feed their 'illness'.

I'm sure the impact of EU workers is far greater than the odd Australian on a working holiday.

Yet more un-educated hearsay. You've not come up with any evidence yet.

The question for all the lefty limp wrtisted liberals should be why is is fair that people work to support others who clearly should be working in an equal society that they strive for? Why should we go to work whilst others don't have that stress and instead get up when they want and do what they want all day whilst still having the norms like a car, fags, booze, sky tv and gamble (should be made to pay back every benefit they have ever had when the f***ing win lottery amounts) etc

Unless they are seriously ill all should be in jobs (tough shit if its only just better than being on the social) or doing community work.

They should have work stations where you can go with your tax bill as proof you pay it and pick up some people to do job like your garden or painting or cleaning your car. After all paying tax means you are paying their wages/benefits.

That is a more fair equal society.

You don't think they want to be in jobs? Perhaps they've given up all hope of finding a job after rejection letter after rejection letter. Perhaps under your plans we might rename those on benefits 'slaves'. You could go to the supermarket and purchase a slave for the day to complete your errands.

The aim of the UK Govt is surely to get UK citizens working...........they are after all the ones who vote.

This week Miliband confirmed that approx. 2.2m migrants arrived in the UK only slightly above the 15k we were told would arrive in 2004 (little wonder the finances of this country were shot to pieces when people like Byrne were opertaing the levers of power).

Not that he made any mention on the impact on social services/wages/job prospects for UK citizens with these numbers of hard working honest folk rock up in the UK?

But its all OK isnt it, because we can go abroad and throw ourselves into the job markets of Warsaw, Budapest and Riga. I guess there must be plenty of vacancies.

Gee, I am feeling so much more optimistic.

Have you ever tried getting a job in Poland?

Well personally I have little sympathy re addicts, a very broad generalisation but in most cases its self inflicted and therefor I don't understand why we should allow them benefits. My views on social benefits in this country are not very socialist it must be said, but I'm sure you can tell.

Interesting your view on Commonwealth workers. You do know as I'm Australian - I'm not entitled to any benefits at all and yet I have to pay taxes and NI and thus put money into the benefit coffers even though I'm not entitled as would many of my working countrymen. But hey ho, chuck us out and give them job to one of those druggies who deserve the money becuase they can't help but shove junk in their mouths/veins.

I would like to see the numbers of commonwealth "job takers" before I'd consider it a serious issue.

So perhaps we strip them of their benefits and then you can fight them off when they are breaking into your home in the middle of the night.

s

Miss the point? why the sarcasm? this was a good debate til you threw that in...

I don't see it as societies responsibility to make these people "functional" (whatever that means) members of society nor to fund their situation? I realize that a heck of a lot of people will be chucked out in the cold - and along with that a good deal of other problems can crop up, but granted not for everyone. I know of several individuals locally who have lost their benefits (which they shouldn't have had in the first place) and who have (with a good deal of struggle) managed to sort themselves out. How many people on benefits would fit that bill? Anyone wish to hazard a guess.

Where there is a genuine need for a benefit to be paid I'm all for it. I'm not happy to fund people because they are too lazy to help themselves, and that

You are a great example of Cain (Genesis 4:9), you are part of the problem. You take no respnsibilty for your fellow man, expecting the government, authorities to deal with everything taking no responsibility, but if you're perfectly happy to then keep on turning a blind eye to these problems. However they may end up manifesting on your doorstep, i hope this doesn't happen but you have a damaging 'Thatcherite' attitude and it needs to be pointed out.

 

[DerbyGull]

Im getting the idea that you have been in the same boat as these retards?Lets face it many of us have had bloody tough times but most of us bounce back and work harder to reach our goals in life.

Most of these drunks have become drunks because of bordom while not working,shame we can't cull humans

Gutter press garbage!

 

[DerbyGull]

I'd far rather have aussies/kiwis/canadians here than people from the EU.

Racist, bigot.

 

[DerbyGull]

Sorry, I've got very little time for those who have contributed to their own downfall because of their eating or other social (unsocial) habits. They should sort their mess out themselves and not rely on others to do it for them.

Maybe you should find time, you might develop as a human being.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

That's a fairly typical response from somebody who doesn't have much idea. QUOTE]

Is that a fact. I am pleased you know me well enough to make such a judgement...arrogant prick.

I stand by what I said. And as for the bullshit about 'I hope your never in that position' blah blah blah, I would do any job to earn money rather than let others support me. Even if it paid less than what the government would give me in benefits.

Not sure the argument about what are people supposed to do holds up because plenty of EU workers don't seem to have a problem getting a job even if they are not that well paid or god forbid unsociable hours!

If you really want work you can get it, it may not be the type of job you want but tough shit, don't let others pay your way. You can carry on looking for better jobs, whilst working as well as whilst sitting watching daytime tv you know.

 

[sydney]

He must have run up more debt AFTER being discharged from bankruptcy as any debts incurred PRIOR to being made bankrupt would have been dealt with under his bankruptcy, and his official reciever would not have let him run up any debt during his bankruptcy period.


don't know the in's and out's of it , it was all cc debt as far as i know but some of it was racked up by his ex-mrs 3 years ago.......it's got me f***ed how some people carry on.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Thanks DerbyGull.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes DC has singled out a section of society that is easy to attack but that is their own fault and at least it is a start. Just don't get me started!!

..as you have now started can you continue please? Come on, flesh out your argument.

 

[Durlston]

I developed an awful addiction to diazepam which left me unable to work for a few months; I've never claimed money when I was on the dole because of it as it would have hurt my pride immensely. Now I'm back in work and feel so much better in every aspect of my life - physically and mentally. It takes a hell of a lot of determination and grit to get off drugs or alcohol and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Too many people in this country can't do that. Blame someone else for their wreck of a life.

I'm glad David Cameron has had the balls to stand up for what he believes is right and seek out the people that are taking the piss out of our country.

 

[Diego Napier]

Thanks DerbyGull.

My thanks too DerbyGull, a breath of humanity to lift the spirit amongst a largely self-centered, I'm-alright-Jack thread

 

[tedebear]

What a towering beacon of humanity you are. Just because you can get by and you're alright then everyone must follow you're example. How about a little humility on you're part, be grateful of the position you are in and stop attacking the most desperate people in our society. You are bringing nothing to the table, just blaming previous governments and not proposing anything original.





Or breaking into your house to feed their 'illness'.







Yet more un-educated hearsay. You've not come up with any evidence yet.









So perhaps we strip them of their benefits and then you can fight them off when they are breaking into your home in the middle of the night.




You are a great example of Cain (Genesis 4:9), you are part of the problem. You take no respnsibilty for your fellow man, expecting the government, authorities to deal with everything taking no responsibility, but if you're perfectly happy to then keep on turning a blind eye to these problems. However they may end up manifesting on your doorstep, i hope this doesn't happen but you have a damaging 'Thatcherite' attitude and it needs to be pointed out.

Your pomposity and arrogance means any shred of sense in your posts worth debating is lost.

To declare I take no responsibility for my fellow man given your reading of a handful of my posts on an internet chat forum is both plain ignorant and arrogant in equal measure.

 

[DerbyGull]

No problem, makes me sick the hatred and total lack of compassion/regard of our fellows.

 

[tedebear]

I think he is trying to do the right thing, but doing it in the wrong way. 99% of these people need a lot more than just being kicked back to work. I used to be one of those that thought that most claimants were shirkers, but since my disability, I have changed my view somewhat. A lot of illness can't be seen, but can be just as debilitating as physical conditions. But we could talk forever on that and if you have never gone through it, you just wouldn't understand.

One thing that does need a lot of work, are the medical interview themselves. I had my application for disability Living Allowance turned down (quite common apparently) The guy who did my assessment had said I was fit for work. Both my GP and my consultants were gobsmaked, as I cannot walk for more that ten yards without either falling or being in extreme pain. Because I couldn't work any more I felt useless as both a father of three and a wife. I became very depressed and attempted to take my own life. I was then diagnosed with clinical depression. Sorry I'm rambling. Any way the upshot was that I went to a tribunal and got full DLA.
I am not looking for sympathy, I just thought that telling you my circumstances, will show how inept these assessments can be really.

You've highlighted perfectly a concern of mine in all this, that people who are truly deserving of the benefits available are able to receive them. Whilst I am sure that there are people on benefits who don't deserve them I am just are sure there are people who don't receive them who should. (and like yourself who shouldn't have to go through what you have to get what you should be entitled to)

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I developed an awful addiction to diazepam which left me unable to work for a few months; I've never claimed money when I was on the dole because of it as it would have hurt my pride immensely. Now I'm back in work and feel so much better in every aspect of my life - physically and mentally. It takes a hell of a lot of determination and grit to get off drugs or alcohol and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Too many people in this country can't do that. Blame someone else for their wreck of a life.

I'm glad David Cameron has had the balls to stand up for what he believes is right and seek out the people that are taking the piss out of our country.

Hope I don't have to bounce this one sometime in the future.