The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[RowleyBirkinQ.C(deceased)]

I've got nothing new to contribute. Just wanted to the 1000th post

Edit:- BUGGER

 

[Albumen]

I've got nothing new to contribute. Just wanted to the 1000th post

Edit:- BUGGER

haha

 

[Pavilionaire]

In HR terms him missing training could probably be covered by his statutory right to paternity leave, provided he was the biological father. However, the chances are it's John Terry so that's f***ed.

 

[Bladders]

But what do courts have to adhere to?

1000the post

SPEECH!

 

[macky]

And Gus wasn't, suggesting he wouldnt stand in his way if he wanted to leave?

you cant have it both ways!!

I dont think anyone is standing in his way As long as a fee paid he can go where he likes

 

[severnside gull]

I dont think anyone is standing in his way As long as a fee paid he can go where he likes

or he can use the current impasse as a basis from which to negotiate a better deal than the one we have offered ?

 

[Bladders]

or he can use the current impasse as a basis from which to negotiate a better deal than the one we have offered ?

Maybe we've all got it backwards and he has no interest in going to a backwater like Elche and is using their interest as leverage in getting a better 2 year deal from us.












(Clutching at straws here)

 

[Pavilionaire]

Missing training is a big deal. At his age and with his injury record he needs the training. It seems like this deal is turning toxic.

 

[B.W.]

Because the negotiation of contracts and employment of players and staff is not his job. The player signs with the club, not the manager. He doesn't sign or pay the players.

Spot on!

 

[B.W.]

Legally yes, morally no!

And how's Vicente's morality looking when he choses to not turn up to training, having been given a week more time off than the rest of the players? Sorry, his behaviour is now officially sh1tty... wind yer' neck out of Vicente's ar$e...

 

[empire]

agree as above,forget him and move on

 

[empire]

and if he is on what people are saying on here,ie 30grand
,then thats wages we can spend elsewhere ,
on somone that wants to be at brighton!!!!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because the negotiation of contracts and employment of players and staff is not his job. The player signs with the club, not the manager. He doesn't sign or pay the players.

That doesn't actually matter. In general terms, if a representative of a company is of a certain responsibility or standing within that company, then their instruction or agreement can be legally binding, regardless if it is a matter not normally within their job remit because they are representing the company and it would be reasonable for the other party to the contact or legal agreement to assume their word holds weight.

In this case Gus Poyet publicly stated that BHA wouldn't hold Vicente to his additional year if he wanted to go. At that point it would be hard to prove that GP doesn't have the required authority or standing within BHA on contractual matters, when he is making public pronouncements on them.

Personally, and I'll probably get flamed for this, I think BHA have acted pretty poorly. GP did state that they would not hold him to the extension if he wanted to move on. There was no reason for Vicente not to take him at his word. On the face of it, he's gone home to be with his family considering his future, and suddenly BHA have invoked this contractual clause which looks like has come as a big surprise to him.

To all those having a pop at Vicente saying he signed a contract and should live with it, that is true, but the other party to that contract publicly stated that the contract extension wouldn't be invoked. BHA have justified this as protecting their interests, however they've gone back on their word in doing so, and frankly I'd be f*cked off as well.

 

[drew]

And how's Vicente's morality looking when he choses to not turn up to training, having been given a week more time off than the rest of the players? Sorry, his behaviour is now officially sh1tty... wind yer' neck out of Vicente's ar$e...

And the behaviour of the club in saying publicly it was up to him if he wanted to come back or not. Perhaps it's you that should 'wind yer' neck in'.

 

[dingodan]

I think the idea was, if he is not happy in England, feels homesick etc, we won't make him stay.

The idea was not, if he gets a better offer, despite everything going well here, he can go take it.

Herein lies the problem.

 

[Bold Seagull]

And the behaviour of the club in saying publicly it was up to him if he wanted to come back or not. Perhaps it's you that should 'wind yer' neck in'.

Totally agree. Vicente left with the club's blessing that his future was in his own hands. He's had that choice removed, and we as a club have acted very poorly in this matter in order to protect a fee that might not even exist in real terms. We've made ourselves look publicly shoddy and frankly unprofessional. If GP has nothing to do with contracts, then he shouldn't be publicly talking about them. If someone at the club believes that he was wrong, then a statement should have be made (even if to the player privately) that GP was wrong. It is apparent this didn't happen.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

That doesn't actually matter. In general terms, if a representative of a company is of a certain responsibility or standing within that company, then their instruction or agreement can be legally binding, regardless if it is a matter not normally within their job remit because they are representing the company and it would be reasonable for the other party to the contact or legal agreement to assume their word holds weight.

In this case Gus Poyet publicly stated that BHA wouldn't hold Vicente to his additional year if he wanted to go. At that point it would be hard to prove that GP doesn't have the required authority or standing within BHA on contractual matters, when he is making public pronouncements on them.

Personally, and I'll probably get flamed for this, I think BHA have acted pretty poorly. GP did state that they would not hold him to the extension if he wanted to move on. There was no reason for Vicente not to take him at his word. On the face of it, he's gone home to be with his family considering his future, and suddenly BHA have invoked this contractual clause which looks like has come as a big surprise to him.

To all those having a pop at Vicente saying he signed a contract and should live with it, that is true, but the other party to that contract publicly stated that the contract extension wouldn't be invoked. BHA have justified this as protecting their interests, however they've gone back on their word in doing so, and frankly I'd be f*cked off as well.

I can't argue with any of that and certainly don't think that the club have acted well here, at least not from a public point of view.

The only counter argument I can put forward is that (and this is presumptuous) Vicente also made a verbal promise to come back at some stage of the summer. Otherwise, Poyet was an idiot for his 90-95% comment. Perhaps when he started stalling, the decision was "well you have gone back on your word, now we'll go back on ours".

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think the idea was, if he is not happy in England, feels homesick etc, we won't make him stay.

The idea was not, if he gets a better offer, despite everything going well here, he can go take it.

Herein lies the problem.

Is there any evidence at all that he has got a better offer? At the moment it looks like a Spanish 2nd division club up the road from his home town. I'd say if anything he is looking at a move motivated by family and lifestyle, it's not like Tevez saying he is homesick then looking to move to Milan! Vicente looks as if he is genuinely looking to stay in the south of Spain, who can bloody blame him looking outside right now!!!

 

[Hotchilidog]

Is there any evidence at all that he has got a better offer? At the moment it looks like a Spanish 2nd division club up the road from his home town. I'd say if anything he is looking at a move motivated by family and lifestyle, it's not like Tevez saying he is homesick then looking to move to Milan! Vicente looks as if he is genuinely looking to stay in the south of Spain, who can bloody blame him looking outside right now!!!

If he wanted to go home he should said so a lot earlier, rather than string us along in the manner in which he appears to have done. Given that choice with which he was faced, stay in England with us or go home to Spain for family reasons, was a very stark one you would have thought he could have arrived at a decision earlier.

Given that we would be looking to build a side around him, Vicente buggering off at the last minute would undoubtedly have caused some sort of rethink for our plans for next year, and making us hang around for an answer is not acceptable in my view. I can quite understand why the maestro would want to return home, and I would not begrudge him the journey home either. However we have a potential playoff campaign to plan for and we cannot be messed around by a key part of that plan. What we need is clarity and we clearly do not have that.

I'm sad to say this is leaving a sour-taste for me, no-one forced Vicente to sign the contract he did, he should be professional in fulfilling his obligations to it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If he wanted to go home he should said so a lot earlier, rather than string us along in the manner in which he appears to have done. Given that choice with which he was faced, stay in England with us or go home to Spain for family reasons, was a very stark one you would have thought he could have arrived at a decision earlier.

Given that we would be looking to build a side around him, Vicente buggering off at the last minute would undoubtedly have caused some sort of rethink for our plans for next year, and making us hang around for an answer is not acceptable in my view. I can quite understand why the maestro would want to return home, and I would not begrudge him the journey home either. However we have a potential playoff campaign to plan for and we cannot be messed around by a key part of that plan. What we need is clarity and we clearly do not have that.

I'm sad to say this is leaving a sour-taste for me, no-one forced Vicente to sign the contract he did, he should be professional in fulfilling his obligations to it.

String us along!? He went with the club's blessing to sort out his future. They knew he was going to be a father again in June, and what, by the end of June he has to have made a decision?

No one forced Gus into a press conference to say the club WOULD NOT be invoking the 2nd year! It doesn't appear that anything was ever said to Vicente to contradict that.

Vicente is was a one club player, one of those rare players that played for his home town team for most of his career. He had his pick of any major moves around Europe at various points but was loyal throughout. Suddenly he's turned into a money grabbing villain? I don't buy it.