The establishment and historic child sex abuse

[BensGrandad]

To be totally fair to Cliff, South Yorkshire police's handling of this particular investigation has been terrible. I think the Met has copped some unfair stick of late but not SWP, they deserve everything that's coming to them. The live TV coverage of the raid on Cliff Richard's house was a disgrace and would have been even if he were eventually found guilty.

I seem to recall SWP have been in the news a fair bit recently over some other matters as well.....

They may then have been able to put up some case of justification but not now I dont think.

 

[Gwylan]

This brings up the old question of anonymity for the accused until appearing in court.as his reputation has been hit badly.

I totally agree that people should not be named whilst enquiries are ongoing though, that is just so wrong.

That is, of course, makes it easier for serial offenders to get away with it.

If, say, SYP investigateed Jimmy Savile and announced that he was under investigation then many, many more victims would have come forward. What happened in reality is that individuals thought "It's my word against his and who will believe me?" When it's one person's word against a couple of thousand, that's very different.

The thinking with Cliff Richard would have been on those lines: if we announce that he's under investigation then lots more victims may come forward. They clearly haven't so he's not being prosecuted. The fact that it's all in the public domain means that he's been cleared very publicly

 

[Icy Gull]

That is, of course, makes it easier for serial offenders to get away with it.

If, say, SYP investigateed Jimmy Savile and announced that he was under investigation then many, many more victims would have come forward. What happened in reality is that individuals thought "It's my word against his and who will believe me?" When it's one person's word against a couple of thousand, that's very different.

The thinking with Cliff Richard would have been on those lines: if we announce that he's under investigation then lots more victims may come forward. They clearly haven't so he's not being prosecuted. The fact that it's all in the public domain means that he's been cleared very publicly

Would have been good if there had been any meaningful investigation into Saville whilst he was alive.

 

[Del Fenner]

That is, of course, makes it easier for serial offenders to get away with it.

If, say, SYP investigateed Jimmy Savile and announced that he was under investigation then many, many more victims would have come forward. What happened in reality is that individuals thought "It's my word against his and who will believe me?" When it's one person's word against a couple of thousand, that's very different.

The thinking with Cliff Richard would have been on those lines: if we announce that he's under investigation then lots more victims may come forward. They clearly haven't so he's not being prosecuted. The fact that it's all in the public domain means that he's been cleared very publicly

"Not enough evidence to prosecute" is hardly being cleared publicly. "No smoke without fire" is going to stay in many minds.

 

[spring hall convert]

IPCC probe into alleged paedophile cover-ups by Met police is expanded as 16 more cases are added

"The police watchdog is now examining a total of 44 allegations of corruption by Scotland Yard relating to claims of child abuse by politicians and establishment figures."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...aedophile-cover-8399413#ICID=sharebar_twitter

 

[spring hall convert]

"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has served criminal and gross misconduct notices on 11 individuals as it continues to investigate Leicestershire Police’s handling of child sexual abuse allegations made against the late Greville Janner."

The IPCC has decided not to name any subjects to ensure that the ongoing criminal investigation is not compromised.

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/notice...-handling-allegations-against-greville-janner

 

[Pavilionaire]

That is, of course, makes it easier for serial offenders to get away with it.

If, say, SYP investigateed Jimmy Savile and announced that he was under investigation then many, many more victims would have come forward. What happened in reality is that individuals thought "It's my word against his and who will believe me?" When it's one person's word against a couple of thousand, that's very different.

The thinking with Cliff Richard would have been on those lines: if we announce that he's under investigation then lots more victims may come forward. They clearly haven't so he's not being prosecuted. The fact that it's all in the public domain means that he's been cleared very publicly

Cliff has always had that tag of being a potential poofter. The fact he never got married and the lack of kiss and tell stories from woman are indications he's more Martha than Arthur. Throw in an allegation of child abuse and that mud will stick, proven or not, particularly as that allegation was made at the same time as so many other allegations against so many of his entertainment industry peers.

I do feel sorry for him, up to a point.

 

[Gwylan]

Cliff has always had that tag of being a potential poofter. The fact he never got married and the lack of kiss and tell stories from woman are indications he's more Martha than Arthur. Throw in an allegation of child abuse and that mud will stick, proven or not, particularly as that allegation was made at the same time as so many other allegations against so many of his entertainment industry peers.

I once worked with a bloke who claimed that he and Cliff had had a brief fling ... and that the singer definitely only swung one way.

This was in 1981 and was supposed to have happened quite a few years before (my ex-colleague and Cliff are about the same age so there was no question of any paedophile activity).

I do think that if there was anything to come out, it would have come out by now. Plenty of victims came forward when it was Savile, Harris, Hall and Clifford in the public domain but there were no credible witnesses to accuse Richard

 

[Pavilionaire]

I once worked with a bloke who claimed that he and Cliff had had a brief fling ... and that the singer definitely only swung one way. This was in 1981 and was supposed to have happened quite a few years before.
I do think that if there was anything to come out, it would have come out by now.

I surprised nothing came out in 1981, particularly as Cliff was "Wired For Sound" - not even a pillow being bitten.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Cliff has always had that tag of being a potential poofter. The fact he never got married and the lack of kiss and tell stories from woman are indications he's more Martha than Arthur. Throw in an allegation of child abuse and that mud will stick, proven or not, particularly as that allegation was made at the same time as so many other allegations against so many of his entertainment industry peers.

I do feel sorry for him, up to a point.

There were stories of women because he was the reason the Shadows split. He had an affair with Tony Meehan's wife.
He became a Christian and said he was becoming celibate. Nobody would believe that someone in the swinging sixties could possibly be celibate, and so the stories started.

 

[spring hall convert]

'British spies are to be approached by lawyers for the official child sex abuse inquiry requesting any intelligence gathered on the late Labour peer Greville Janner.

Ben Emmerson QC, counsel to the independent inquiry, said his team had spoken to MI5 and will be contacting MI6 and GCHQ for any files held relating to Lord Janner, who died last year aged 87.'

https://www.theguardian.com/society...any-lord-janner-intelligence?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-monsters-like-Cyril-Smith-Jimmy-Savile.html

 

[spring hall convert]

"A realisation that the Establishment protected its own in cases such as Thorpe’s probably, in turn, fuelled the absurd recent overreaction by police investigating historic abuse accusations by liars and fantasists against the likes of Edward Heath, Leon Brittan and Cliff Richard."

No agenda here then.

 

[spring hall convert]

Anyone catch the Janner's doing the rounds yesterday?

No mention of this, I see - https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/notice...-handling-allegations-against-greville-janner

And if they are so confident of his innocence, why won't they give evidence to the Goddard enquiry?

 

[knocky1]

I thought the Kiwi was a flightless bird. This one has flown. No reason given as yet. The establishment?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36982049

 

[Doc Lynam]

Shocking really, how badly this is being managed!

 

[spring hall convert]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...hild-sexual-abuse_uk_57a386cbe4b06c6e8dc6f95d

"Despite the revelations about the amount of time Goddard spent abroad, investigative journalist Mark Watts said she had threatened to resign before over “interference” from the Home Office in the inquiry."

Michael Mansfield QC would have the trust of survivors but at 74, it would be a huge project to take on. It'll more likely be Marion Janner.

 

[spring hall convert]

A rare sighting of the lesser spotted Vaz

http://www.itv.com/news/central/201...-after-head-of-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-quits/

 

[spring hall convert]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-secrets-tory-abuse-8762865

 

[spring hall convert]

Do we all remember the Tory MP Andrew Bridgen who along with an unnamed Labour MP, took allegations of CSA against a sitting Labour MP to the police last year?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ter-telling-police-of-MPs-alleged-crimes.html

He sure had plenty of forthright stuff to say about Keith Vaz yesterday

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sex-shame-labour-mp-keith-8768207

Conservative Andrew Bridgen said: “I have long been of the opinion that Keith Vaz is not fit to be an MP.

“I’m afraid that what has been exposed by the Sunday Mirror is the tip of the iceberg. There should a full police investigation and a Parliamentary standards inquiry.”

Vaz's track record has been documented in this thread but a brief reminder;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Vaz

- Served as a solicitor for Richmond Borough Council in the early 80's. RBC is home to the infamous Elm Guest House.
- Later became chief solicitor for Islington until 1985. Islington (as well as being Jeremy Corbyn's consitiuency) is home to one of the biggest uncovered CSA scandals which was ongoing at Vaz's time in the consituency - http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-might-show-a-bit-more-humility-10098871.html
- Was a key supporter of Greville Janner. Many say he owed his political career to Janner. Vaz more than returned the favour - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-greville-janner-claims-why-is-vaz-silent-now
- Campaigned vociferously for anonymity for people accused of CSA - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/20/suspects-should-stay-anonymous-until-charged-mps-say

What odds do I get on him being found dead relatively soon?