The Conservative Party.

[PILTDOWN MAN]

How many times will you trot this out. Go and have a look at the Gold price for the past 20 years and then work out how it was sold at the lowest price possible. If you had that gold when would you have sold it then?

The gold price was going nowhere and the rise came after he sold that half. If he sold it at a low buying it now when its high would be stupid but thats what several countries are doing now.
In truth Brown was probably ordered to sell it by the ECB/fed in order to kill the gold price and protect Fiat currencies. He thought the price would stay level for evermore - now that was stupid!

So telling the world of his intentions and flooding the market had no effect. He done it to show support for the f**king euro. He was and is a TWAT.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

oh please. When Labour left in 1979 the country was a mess. When the Conservatives left in 1997 it wasn't. Then when Labour left in 2010 it was a mess again. See the pattern? We'd rather have a Labour government spreading the country's wealth, but every time we vote them in, they f*** it up and we have no choice but to ask the Tories to fix it again.

Labour had over 10 years from 1997 before it went tits up. Over 10 years to place restrictions on banks, and 10 years to get the economy how they wanted it. You can argue most points in politics, but trying to blame the crash of 2008 on the Tories is a bit much.

This.

I think some need to actually read and understand the history of politics instead of believing "student revolutionary bollox".

 

[Caveman]

Not sure how we alter it. We need to manufacture and specialise if we are to shift our economy away from a reliance on the financial sector.

Which brings me back to my first point. Thatcher f*cked us up on that one!

 

[cunning fergus]

Oh please change the record.

The Tories backed all of the last governments economic policies and were the most toothless opposition prior to when "Call me Dave" took over. They had the chance to really challenge the last government on their spending plans and yet they backed them to the hilt.

In fact, if you think that this country would be in a better position under the Tories, then you're in cloud cuckoo land and deluded.

This crisis was caused by a combination of bad economic policy by the government(backed by the Conservatives), a lacklustre regulation of the banking industry by the FSA and the amalgamation of the Eurozone.

By just blaming the last government is proof that you don't really understand what's going on in Europe where very different economies were lumped together tp create the Eurozone and those in southern Europe with different cultures were expected to follow the same economic guidelines to those in the more affluent areas of Scandinavia and northern Europe.

Perhaps it is you that doesn't understand. The lacklustre regulation you refer to was a direct result of Labour policy. Gordon Brown congratulated himself on having made sure that there was a "light touch regulatory system" in his Mansion House speech of 2007......no mention of greedy bankers then.

The revelations of how close Labour and News International were in bed together is a window on how they operated in power. If there is one thing politicans love it is someone more powerful than they.......it would be good to know how many times Brown/Blair/Darling et al choked down Goodwin's veiny cock and surpressed the regulator from doing exactly what was required of the FSA (as defined by Labour's very own Financial Services and Markets Act 2000).

At least Balls has apologised for Labour's incompetence in September, and in Parliament.......we are still waiting for Brown.

That said how (after today's news about RBS) he is currently the shadow chancellor is a f***ing mystery. Proof if any was needed that politicians these days have no shame and they should be chucked in the oven.

He's already f***ed up royally.......what makes you think we should trust him or any other Labour minister again.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I'm trying to work out what, exactly, Dave thinks he's brought back from his latest trip to Europe. A litre of malt whisky from the airport shop, maybe. But anything else?

He brought back a present for the blazer-wearing, swivel-eyed hand-wavers of the Tory Party's lunatic fringe and that seems to be the main point of the trip.

 

[clapham_gull]

Ashdown on Newsnight just said Cameron thinks he's Thatcher but isn't up to playing the role..... oh dear.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Interesting to see all this Tory bashing - but what would Miliband have done in Cameron's place? This is just political opportunism.

Would Miliband really have signed up to the EC financial plan and made us even more closely linked to the fate of the Euro? Yes our bank debts are heavily exposed to the Euro crisis so we are not out of the woods whichever way we jump - but at least DC stood up for the UK financial system which Merkozy wanted to plunder. Lets see which way the other waivering countries jump before we get too carried away. I suspect that the French and Germans will apply severe pressure and maybe offer all sorts of inducements to get them onboard. But how many of those Countries will dare give their voters the chance to decide in a referendum? In the current climate would Miliband really win a referendum to take us closer to Europe?

Heard an interesting analysis last night by a prominent political commentator who suggested that in spite of their current position and crowing about having pulled one over on us that secretly the French don't really want to be tied to all the dead duck EEC countries or be endebted to the Germans for the forseeable future - and that Sarkozy would ideally follow the UK stance, but can't as he needs to honour the promises already made to various influential interest groups within France ahead of their Presidential elections. Ideally the French would stick to their protectionist stance and stuff the rest of Europe but afford to lose out on the funding.The same commentator also suggested that the Germans would happily dump the rest of Europe including the French. There was even a suggestion that the Germans are secretly printing Deutschmarks just in case the Euro collapses.

Now is the time for punters to help our own economy, buy British and bin any thoughts of owning a French car or having a French holiday.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

So telling the world of his intentions and flooding the market had no effect. He done it to show support for the f**king euro. He was and is a TWAT.

Yep was really stupid wasn't it - thats why it was planned.......... Why would you give six - nine months notice when you were selling it? Unless you wanted to hold the price down for that time

Flooding the market doesn't send the market up it sends it down.

He was ordered to sell it. Where's Germany's gold only that seems to have gone missing since they moved it to Fort Knox to stop the Russians from getting it?

And is there really as much Gold in Fort Knox as there should be ?

 

[beorhthelm]

Which brings me back to my first point. Thatcher f*cked us up on that one!

yeah, but thats pretty tedious argument 20 years ago after she left office. what did Labour, with a massively landslide in 97, 3 parliaments and the fabled "end to boom and bust" do to reverese this? nothing, they just enlarged the apparatus of the state to create faux jobs.

 

[looney]

I'm trying to work out what, exactly, Dave thinks he's brought back from his latest trip to Europe. A litre of malt whisky from the airport shop, maybe. But anything else?

He got nothing which was inevitable. Hes the ted heath of the Conservatives. I mean a comparison with the miners here. Heath thought he could handle them but they destroyed him, Cameron thinks he can handle europe, it will destroy him. Only a Thatcher type will be able to sort out the EU issue.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm trying to work out what, exactly, Dave thinks he's brought back from his latest trip to Europe. A litre of malt whisky from the airport shop, maybe. But anything else?

Now he has sobered up from the litre of whisky he seems to be back tracking on some of his billy big bollocks speech from Friday. Now he is saying he wants to cooperate with Europe and has also u-turned on his desire to challenge the legality of the new 26 pact using the EU staff and buildings.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

He got nothing which was inevitable. Hes the ted heath of the Conservatives. I mean a comparison with the miners here. Heath thought he could handle them but they destroyed him, Cameron thinks he can handle europe, it will destroy him. Only a Thatcher type will be able to sort out the EU issue.

Bloody Hell Looney I was with you all the way there till the Thatcher bit.

 

[Triggaaar]

Why were the Conservatives voted out in 1997 then? If things were so rosy I am sure they wouldn't have been given the elbow.

Are you a complete dunce? If the country wasn't a mess in 97 then why did the government get voted out?

Pot, kettle. Governments aren't only voted out when the economy is knackered. Governments get complacent and change is often a good thing after a few terms of one party. Our economy was poor from about 1989 until 1992 (Nigel Lawson, double MIRAS followed by zero MIRAS didn't help). In 1997 it was growing nicely, as it had been for several years.

Things were in a right state and we'd just had a horrific recession due to Tory (yes Tory) poor financial management. The NHS was on its knees.

No we hadn't just had a recession. We were in recession until about 1992, Labour took over in 1997 - get your facts right. NHS stats are fiddled so much it's difficult to know the facts.

Things were grim and borrowing levels as a percent of GDP were higher than they were at ANY time during Labours last 12 year term!

Our country was booming during the last 10 years, and Labour shouldn't have allowed our national debt to increase so much. Although it wasn't too high in relation to GDP 10 years ago, it was by 2010, and I imagine higher as a percentage than in 1997.

Both parties are full of shit. Until people realise, and heaven forbid somebody challenges with an alternative, we are getting exactly what we deserve.

Well yes all parties are full of shit. Voters say they want the truth, but if one party was honest, they'd never get in power. I think any alternative would be down to how the media report on politics.

I do not believe the Tories would have done one thing differently than Labour, except delivered even less in welfare reforms.

Well I doubt the Tories would have brought in the banking regulations we needed, so the shit would have hit the fan their. And they would have spent less, so public services would have had less to go around. My guess is that our debt would now be lower as a percentage of GDP.

 

[Triggaaar]

Now he has sobered up from the litre of whisky he seems to be back tracking on some of his billy big bollocks speech from Friday. Now he is saying he wants to cooperate with Europe

He's never said we don't want to cooperate with Europe. We are European, they buy a lot of our exports. He just doesn't want to agree to the deal they offered - he hasn't totally changed his mind on that has he?

 

[El Presidente]

Compared to the power of the markets and banks today arguing about Labour or Tory is about as much use as rearranging the deckchairs of the Titanic

 

[Bold Seagull]

yeah, but thats pretty tedious argument 20 years ago after she left office. what did Labour, with a massively landslide in 97, 3 parliaments and the fabled "end to boom and bust" do to reverese this? nothing, they just enlarged the apparatus of the state to create faux jobs.

Regardless of whose fault, it doesn't change the fact that from the 1980's our economy started switch from a manufacturing based one to a financial services one. Germany & France can take the hit on their banking sector as it isn't as big a factor in their overall economies. DC has left the table because Britains economy is disproportionately reliant on the City of London. It's an indication that the banks will be left largely untouched again, perhaps with some token regulation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He's never said we don't want to cooperate with Europe. We are European, they buy a lot of our exports. He just doesn't want to agree to the deal they offered - he hasn't totally changed his mind on that has he?

Full, influential and committed partner were his words. Not only is this impossible if he is not part of the new pact, it is a change to his bullish (stupid) stance on Friday.

 

[NMH]

I can't understand why posters are directing their ire at Cameron from a party point of view - he hasn't just represented TORIES in Europe, or responded to anything tabled by the Labour party.

I'm not one to stick up for the Conservatives in the least - I hate thatcher and have a distrust for their intentions at home. However, who-ever is in government at this very moment has some difficult decisions to make and some neck to stick out.

ARE the Germans and French thinking about our best interests right now, or are they attempting to struggle through a complete EFF-UP they have allowed in the EEC??
Does THEIR record reflect wisdom and the safe handling of a collective economy and trade union??

If your answer to the above is "the latter, and NO", then Cameron is surely right to baulk at trusting our future to the Euro based business lot.

'They' need all the help they can get while trying to right a sinking ship, but this might just be the time to concede every man for himself - and every hand to the pumps.

Clegg I am happy to ignore completely, no reason to think otherwise. Cameron is making some kind of a stand, and on the evidence from the common market I'm prepared to believe it's required for the UK.

I'm just going to forget about bitching over party lines, this is not essentially about that as far as I can tell.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I'm not really sure what anyone expected him to bring back. The French and Germans were going to go without us anyway so didn't need to give anything away. Surely it was just whether or not he came back with us in or out. He chose out as it appeared to be in our best interests. Does anyone really believe that this new group will be able to fine countries that go over budget but don't have any money in the first place? The verdict on the decision Dc made can't actually be delivered until we see how this unravels

 

[Stoo82]

First we have Maggy Thatcher with selling our UK industry, now we have the latest from Mr Cameron?

Is it that the Conversatives make bad decisions? Or is our friend Mr Cameron right here?

Did you watch the news where it was said the Ed would have vetoed too?