The Albion posts losses of £14.7m

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Question for El Pres. How can you be certain depreciation of the stadium is not in the 2012/13 statutory accounts when you haven't seen them yet?

We're talking about the football club's accounts here, who owns the stadium?

 

[hybrid_x]

ok, after reading this and listening to barber..... http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26055733

....i now think we "went for it" last season, also did our big one off spends last season, and are now ready to be in line with FFP.

A couple of seasons in the championship, then as the other clubs get hit, we will rise due to the academy and steady financial footing (<<being optimistic, but this is what i hope).

 

[Bean]

Ticket prices going up. Star manager and star players leaving. Wont be long till most of your fans are back supporting Chelsea and Arsenal again.

Honestly dont wish financial trouble on any club, including Brighton. And Palace have no right to brag. Also have a lot of respect for the older generation of Brighton fans who have been through the thick and the thin. However the sense of entitlement and arrogance of some your younger fans might learn a thing or 2 from the past year or so.

twice!

 

[CheeseRolls]

That - as you well know, or at least should know - misses the point by a distance.

It's not what he had compared to the previous season's budgets that's important - it's what he had compared to other clubs in the same division in that season that's the issue.

The previous season, El Pres states it was the 14th highest in the division. Last season, he estimates it was 8th/9th highest. We finished 4th.

Sorry TLO this is irrelevant.

BW is struggling to put across his point of view that he dislikes Poyet. Despite a post count into four figures on this subject alone, he feels he has yet to accurately express his feelings on the subject. If you could please be a little more supportive and understanding, it is possible that he can overcome his struggle and find the words he needs to truly convey his thoughts on the subject.

 

[tinycowboy]

I'm 100% certain because the club don't own the stadium, and you can't depreciate someone else's asset.

BHA Holdings Limited has capitalised £101.0m Land & Buildings in the 2012 accounts, including a premium of £5.3m for the land. Regardless of the fact that the stadium land is leased, they have created an asset on that land which should be subject to depreciation. Unless the residual value exceeds the carrying value.

 

[Creaky]

We're talking about the football club's accounts here, who owns the stadium?

The Community Stadium Limited

 

[B.W.]

I'm 100% certain because the club don't own the stadium, and you can't depreciate someone else's asset.

So, in order to get back down to £8M loss we have to increase revenue by £7M (next to no chance), or reduce playing budget (because that is where the big costs are) by a similar amount, or some mix of both. How is that going to happen? Unless we have front-loaded costs into the 2012/13 accounts, of course? I await your detailed analysis of the accounts with interest...

 

[El Presidente]

BHA Holdings Limited has capitalised £101.0m Land & Buildings in the 2012 accounts, including a premium of £5.3m for the land. Regardless of the fact that the stadium land is leased, they have created an asset on that land which should be subject to depreciation. Unless the residual value exceeds the carrying value.

I'm not denying that, but the £14.7m loss refers to Brighton and Hove Albion Limited, and they don't own the stadium.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

BHA Holdings Limited has capitalised £101.0m Land & Buildings in the 2012 accounts, including a premium of £5.3m for the land. Regardless of the fact that the stadium land is leased, they have created an asset on that land which should be subject to depreciation. Unless the residual value exceeds the carrying value.

BHA Holdings Ltd isn't the football club though is it?

 

[B.W.]

That - as you well know, or at least should know - misses the point by a distance.

It's not what he had compared to the previous season's budgets that's important - it's what he had compared to other clubs in the same division in that season that's the issue.

The previous season, El Pres states it was the 14th highest in the division. Last season, he estimates it was 8th/9th highest. We finished 4th.

So, 8th/9th is mid-table, is it? Hardly a massive over-achievement/deviation from 4th to 8th/9th is it? Or 10th to 14th for that matter. And he was still completely out of order to moan at a budget that increased by 41%. That IS the issue. Ungrateful tw@t.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Can we have a separate thread for 'Poyet and the losses' please

 

[B.W.]

Sorry TLO this is irrelevant.

BW is struggling to put across his point of view that he dislikes Poyet. Despite a post count into four figures on this subject alone, he feels he has yet to accurately express his feelings on the subject. If you could please be a little more supportive and understanding, it is possible that he can overcome his struggle and find the words he needs to truly convey his thoughts on the subject.

Most helpful. Thank you for your understanding. Seriously, I can post what I like, if you don't like it, tough.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

So, 8th/9th is mid-table, is it? Hardly a massive over-achievement/deviation from 4th to 8th/9th is it?.

Well yes, it is.

It's an overachievement.

Same as being budgeted to finish 5th/6th and finishing 1st in fact.

 

[Creaky]

So, 8th/9th is mid-table, is it? Hardly a massive over-achievement/deviation from 4th to 8th/9th is it? Or 10th to 14th for that matter. And he was still completely out of order to moan at a budget that increased by 41%. That IS the issue. Ungrateful tw@t.

So where are all these moans that GP is alleged to have made?

All I recall is a statement to the effect that Brighton had hit a ceiling in financial terms, which these accounts appear to confirm.

 

[El Presidente]

So, in order to get back down to £8M loss we have to increase revenue by £7M (next to no chance), or reduce playing budget (because that is where the big costs are) by a similar amount, or some mix of both. How is that going to happen? Unless we have front-loaded costs into the 2012/13 accounts, of course? I await your detailed analysis of the accounts with interest...

Some costs don't qualify for FFP. Based on previous accounts I estimate these to be in the £2.5-3m range. Some costs are unlikely to be repeated, such as the catering contract issues and redundancies made. Let's say these are £750k.

Therefore the FFP loss (as opposed to the accounting loss) is in the range £11-11.5 million.

The club has to therefore increase income and reduce costs by about £3-3.5million this season. That is a hard task but achievable. The published accounts will give me a better chance of looking at the more precise figures.

Remember that the club is not paying for your mate Gus this season, or his chauffeur driven pram from which he can spit his dummy.

 

[B.W.]

Well yes, it is.

It's an overachievement.

Same as being budgeted to finish 5th/6th and finishing 1st in fact.

As I said, not a massive over-achievement. Unless you believe that club's positions will EXACTLY match their playing budget, that is?

 

[B.W.]

So where are all these moans that GP is alleged to have made?

All I recall is a statement to the effect that Brighton had hit a ceiling in financial terms, which these accounts appear to confirm.

Gus constantly moaned in the press about his budget throughout the season he received a 41% increase. Tw@t.

 

[tinycowboy]

I'm not denying that, but the £14.7m loss refers to Brighton and Hove Albion Limited, and they don't own the stadium.

BHA Holdings Ltd isn't the football club though is it?

OK. Right, sorry - I'm looking at the wrong accounts then. Shouldn't we be more worried about the consolidated accounts though? I suppose it depends what angle you're coming from. From an FFP angle, does FFP apply to the subsidiary only, adjusted for related party transactions (plus other stuff)?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

As I said, not a massive over-achievement. Unless you believe that club's positions will EXACTLY match their playing budget, that is?

Which, according to research of the top four divisions in English football dating back to around 1974 in the excellent book Soccernomics, a club's position will pretty much match their playing budget in around 90 per cent of cases.

Poyet certainly over-achieved in our first season in the Championship against budget and, considering the gulf in wage budget widens the higher up the table you go, I think a strong case could be made for him over-achieving last season, regardless of whether our budget was 9th best or 14th best in the division.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

The Community Stadium Limited

Exactly and any stadium depreciation will appear in the accounts of CSL and the Holding Company (BHA Holdings Ltd). The football club, BHA Ltd, is a separate legal entity and is a member of the Football League (according to the Comp Hse listing).