[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[Psychobilly freakout]

Yes, it's too far - certainly by that route. To change the constitution requires a two-thirds majority in both the Senate and the House, and the President isn't involved.

Is it though ?
All I see is, a man convicted of crimes, guilty of insurrection, getting let off and it seems by politicians and judges that are happy to facilitate this all.
He seems to be able to do what the hell he wants, there seems no justice or moral compass.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Is it though ?
All I see is, a man convicted of crimes, guilty of insurrection, getting let off and it seems by politicians and judges that are happy to facilitate this all.
He seems to be able to do what the hell he wants, there seems no justice or moral compass.

Nonetheless, even though you don't see the US Constitution, it is still there. If you genuinely think that he is going to rip up the Constitution and close down the Senate and the House of Representatives, then that's your prerogative, but I doubt you would find a serious commentator to think it's remotely possible.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Nonetheless, even though you don't see the US Constitution, it is still there. If you genuinely think that he is going to rip up the Constitution and close down the Senate and the House of Representatives, then that's your prerogative, but I doubt you would find a serious commentator to think it's remotely possible.

I merely asked because I am a dimwit and know very little about American politics or their constitution, just intrigued if it could be a possibility, after all he does seem to do what the feck he likes, and basically calling for revolution is pretty out there and he seems not really to have been punished for that, some think he is hero.

 

[Zeberdi]

Is it though ?
All I see is, a man convicted of crimes, guilty of insurrection, getting let off and it seems by politicians and judges that are happy to facilitate this all.
He seems to be able to do what the hell he wants, there seems no justice or moral compass.

You are right about Trump’s characteristics but It would take the almost complete political collapse of the Democratic Party in Congress for the Republicans to be able to change the Constitution and end term limits.

As @dsr-burnley said, it takes a two third majority in the Senate to effect that kind of change and at the moment America is pretty much polarised 50:50 so the Dems are unlikely to lose a that number of seats. It would also presume every Republican supporting a move to amend a provision in the Constitution that is fundamental to a liberal democracy - that is also unlikely.

Having said that, with Trump’s commitment to bringing in the National Guard to round up undocumented migrants, his commitment to sack thousands of federal workers and centralise power to the Executive as well as the SCOTUS ruling on immunity, the storming of the Capitol on January 6 could be a significant sign of worse to come.

If Trump tries to get a third term, it will not be through the democratic process but by attempts to usurp the electoral process and by a a violent resistance to the peaceful transition of power at the end of his second term.

As you imply, the fundamental key to democracy is not how we elect leaders to power but how easily the electorate can remove them.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

You are right about Trump’s characteristics but It would take the almost complete political collapse of the Democratic Party in Congress for the Republicans to be able to change the Constitution and end term limits.

As @dsr-burnley said, it takes a two third majority in the Senate to effect that kind of change and at the moment America is pretty much polarised 50:50 so the Dems are unlikely to lose a that number of seats. It would also presume every Republican supporting a move to amend a provision in the Constitution that is fundamental to a liberal democracy - that is also unlikely.

Having said that, with Trump’s commitment to bringing in the National Guard to round up undocumented migrants, his commitment to sack thousands of federal workers and centralise power to the Executive as well as the SCOTUS ruling on immunity, the storming of the Capitol on January 6 could be a significant sign of worse to come.

If Trump tries to get a third term, it will not be through the democratic process but by attempts to usurp the electoral process and by a a violent resistance to the peaceful transition of power at the end of his second term.

As you imply, the fundamental key to democracy is not how we elect leaders to power but how easily the electorate can remove them.

Thank you Zeberdi,
Pretty much as I thought, not likely, but possible knowing Trump is dangerous, quite possibly the next Antichrist warned about by Nostradamus.
Cool beans....

 

[StonehamPark]

Kamala Harris is now, according to bookmakers, more likely to win the election than Biden...

Very interesting.

I’ve been certain that the Dems will replace Biden since the night of the debate - but I personally would have bet large against them backing Kamala due to her horrendous popularity ratings throughout all of Biden’s first term.

But realistically, aside from Sleepy Joe and Kamala, who else would want that fight at such short notice (Jill??). For any genuinely great and viable candidate, it’s much better to wait out this current storm and go for it in 4 years time.

This is the wildest season of The U.S in recent years imo.

 

[worthingweird]

Very interesting.

I’ve been certain that the Dems will replace Biden since the night of the debate - but I personally would have bet large against them backing Kamala due to her horrendous popularity ratings throughout all of Biden’s first term.

But realistically, aside from Sleepy Joe and Kamala, who else would want that fight at such short notice (Jill??). For any genuinely great and viable candidate, it’s much better to wait out this current storm and go for it in 4 years time.

This is the wildest season of The U.S in recent years imo.

Go Trump...

 

[lasvegan]

For anyone interested…

The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription

[get-content name="print-page-left" include-tag="false" /] Note: The following text is a transcription of the Constitution as it was inscribed by Jacob Shallus on parchment (the document on display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum.) The spelling and punctuation reflect the original.

www.archives.gov

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

 

[Bodian]

According to Trump, Biden has quit the race, and Kamala Harris is 'f***ing bad'.

Trump calls Biden ‘broken-down’ and claims he quit 2024 race in leaked video

Clip obtained by Daily Beast shows ex-president sitting in golf cart, holding cash, as he discusses presidential debate

www.theguardian.com

 

[sparkie]

Lol.

Very accurate.

 

[FamilyGuy]

According to Trump, Biden has quit the race, and Kamala Harris is 'f***ing bad'.

Trump calls Biden ‘broken-down’ and claims he quit 2024 race in leaked video

Clip obtained by Daily Beast shows ex-president sitting in golf cart, holding cash, as he discusses presidential debate

www.theguardian.com

Yet another reason (as if one were needed) why Trump is unfit to be POTUS - or "in charge" of anything of value.

 

[Seagull58]

I think it is inevitable Trump will win the next election now, and all that comes with that including pardoning himself etc etc.
As sad as that maybe, my main concern is that I get the impression he wont be satisfied with one term, which would be his two terms in power.
I can see him changing the 22nd Amendment and staying in power for as long as he can, until a member of his family is passed the baton.
Is it to far to suggest The United Sates of America could become a dictatorship ?

I still think the Dem vote will turn out in November and they will win the Presidency, hold the Senate and win the House. They will then be in a position to reform SCOTUS, impeach and jail Clarence Thomas, and ensure Trump pays for his crimes.
The alternative is a dictatorship and a revenge fest.on his political enemies.

 

[Zeberdi]

I still think the Dem vote will turn out in November and they will win the Presidency, hold the Senate and win the House. They will then be in a position to reform SCOTUS, impeach and jail Clarence Thomas, and ensure Trump pays for his crimes.
The alternative is a dictatorship and a revenge fest.on his political enemies.

We can hope but sorry to be negative - Trump is still pulling away from Biden in the opinion polls - the debate did Biden no favours and he has another to face in September.

The Democratic support is demotivated by Biden’s obvious age issues and America is deeply divided with only a minority of swing voters that could determine the outcome of this election. Biden’s performance in the debate confirmed what most democratic swing voters were already seeing, that he is too old to do 4 more years.

I am really not sure how SCOTUS can be “reformed” (Unless the Constitution is amended - see above) - The Justices of the Supreme Court are nominated for life and need to be confirmed by a majority vote the Senate. Unless 2 of the 6 Republican appointed justices on the Court dies, there will be no “reform”… nominating Justices is nearly always split down party lines (as are their judgments usually), so it would need the Dems not only to win the Presidency but win a working majority in the Senate even if a vacancy did happen (but also bear in mind that the Republicans have been appointing much young justices in recent years).


- given the closeness of this election, they could not just fail to regain the House but lose overall control of the Senate too.

The Republicans are not defending any Senate seats in States that voted against him in 2020 - whereas the Democrats are defending either State Senate seats where Trump won in 2020 or where Biden won in 2020 by very slim margins (less than 3%)

 

[lasvegan]

I still think the Dem vote will turn out in November and they will win the Presidency, hold the Senate and win the House. They will then be in a position to reform SCOTUS, impeach and jail Clarence Thomas, and ensure Trump pays for his crimes.
The alternative is a dictatorship and a revenge fest.on his political enemies.

If you’re including the the illegal and dead Dem voters you may well be right. What do you mean by reforming SCOTUS? Stacking the court with leftists? How very democratic. And only a racist would target Clarence Thomas, surely? The dictatorship point of view is patently absurd.

 

[Seagull58]

We can hope but sorry to be negative - Trump is still pulling away from Biden in the opinion polls - the debate did Biden no favours and he has another to face in September.

The Democratic support is demotivated by Biden’s obvious age issues and America is deeply divided with only a minority of swing voters that could determine the outcome of this election. Biden’s performance in the debate confirmed what most democratic swing voters were already seeing, that he is too old to do 4 more years.

I am really not sure how SCOTUS can be “reformed” (Unless the Constitution is amended - see above) - The Justices of the Supreme Court are nominated for life and need to be confirmed by a majority vote the Senate. Unless 2 of the 6 Republican appointed justices on the Court dies, there will be no “reform”… nominating Justices is nearly always split down party lines (as are their judgments usually), so it would need the Dems not only to win the Presidency but win a working majority in the Senate even if a vacancy did happen (but also bear in mind that the Republicans have been appointing much young justices in recent years).


- given the closeness of this election, they could not just fail to regain the House but lose overall control of the Senate too.

The Republicans are not defending any Senate seats in States that voted against him in 2020 - whereas the Democrats are defending either State Senate seats where Trump won in 2020 or where Biden won in 2020 by very slim margins (less than 3%)

Regarding SCOTUS, one option is to expand to 13 judges, another is to impeach and remove Thomas and Alito for their corruption, also impeach and remove Kavanaugh and Gorsuch for their perjury during their nomination hearings, although the Kavanaugh and Gorsuch impeachments are a big stretch compared to the corruption of Thomas and Alito.

 

[Seagull58]

If you’re including the the illegal and dead Dem voters you may well be right. What do you mean by reforming SCOTUS? Stacking the court with leftists? How very democratic. And only a racist would target Clarence Thomas, surely? The dictatorship point of view is patently absurd.

Thomas has been demonstrably corrupt for 2 decades. Nothing to do with his race and rather embarrassing of you to play the race card.

 

[Zeberdi]

Regarding SCOTUS, one option is to expand to 13 judges, another is to impeach and remove Thomas and Alito for their corruption, also impeach and remove Kavanaugh and Gorsuch for their perjury during their nomination hearings, although the Kavanaugh and Gorsuch impeachments are a big stretch compared to the corruption of Thomas and Alito.

I agree but that also requires a majority in the Senate to get it through and the Democrats would open themselves up to criticism for packing the court for political advantage. Markey acknowledged Democrats would also first have to abolish the filibuster rule in the Senate to have a chance to pass his court expansion bill (that was how Merrick Garland was blocked if you remember). And even so, it would require all 50 Democrats to vote in favour of expansion and at the moment both Biden and most Democrats aren’t in favour.

It might be better to introduce 18 month term limits for Justices (although that creates legal uncertainties in the law of precedents and would probably need a Constitutional amendment to introduce)

As for Impeachment of any of the Justices, it is simple, it wont happen unless the Dems win back control of the House as articles of impeachment must be agreed by the HoR before they are sent to the Senate. If someone is to be convicted in the Senate (politically) and removed from office, that also requires a two thirds majority in the Senate so another big swing needed by the Dems there..

 

[lasvegan]

Thomas has been demonstrably corrupt for 2 decades. Nothing to do with his race and rather embarrassing of you to play the race card.

Playing the race card was facetious on my part, thats a purely democrat tactic. How has he been corrupt for two decades?

 

[lasvegan]

I agree but that also requires a majority in the Senate to get it through and the Democrats would open themselves up to criticism for packing the court for political advantage. Markey acknowledged Democrats would also first have to abolish the filibuster rule in the Senate to have a chance to pass his court expansion bill (that was how Merrick Garland was blocked if you remember). And even so, it would require all 50 Democrats to vote in favour of expansion and at the moment both Biden and most Democrats aren’t in favour.

It might be better to introduce 18 month term limits for Justices (although that creates legal uncertainties in the law of precedents and would probably need a Constitutional amendment to introduce)

As for Impeachment of any of the Justices, it is simple, it wont happen unless the Dems win back control of the House as articles of impeachment must be agreed by the HoR before they are sent to the Senate. If someone is to be convicted in the Senate (politically) and removed from office, that also requires a two thirds majority in the Senate so another big swing needed by the Dems there..

So throw out the constitution for political advantage. You’re making shit up. Exactly what the framers warned about…