[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[Withdean South Stand]

I think Fetterman has a unique perspective on this, but he'd suffered a stroke and was still recovering. He's an incredible man and character but he was limited physically with his performance, he got better.

Biden isn't going to get better - this was him after a full week of preparation and good rest. It's really sad watching his performance last night.

 

[jcdenton08]

I felt sorry for Biden because most Yanks forget that he has a stutter. They just think he has dementia.

I think if you look at older videos from his original campaign speeches and debates, he has clearly deteriorated. I know what you mean about the speech impediment, but actually in my view the losing the train of thought issue is an entirely separate one. Sorry to say, he looks like he is suffering with a severe slowing of his mental facilities.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I think if you look at older videos from his original campaign speeches and debates, he has clearly deteriorated. I know what you mean about the speech impediment, but actually in my view the losing the train of thought issue is an entirely separate one. Sorry to say, he looks like he is suffering with a severe slowing of his mental facilities.

They're saying the same about Trump which has become more apparent since the guilty verdict , he may avoid jail time if his lawyers appeal on this basis.

 

[jcdenton08]

They're saying the same about Trump which has become more apparent since the guilty verdict , he may avoid jail time if his lawyers appeal on this basis.

They’re both awful

 

[StonehamPark]

I just watched the full debate, no real surprises for me.

It's easy for me to feel sorry for Biden, he's too old, he's had so many major health problems and he's fumbling the ball due to real mental decline. If he were 20 years younger, he'd likely steamroll this in my opinion. But he's not, and the rest of the world's leaders can see that he's got one foot in the grave.

Trump's a great talker, spitting out soundbites which millions of voters will enjoy. A large dose of truth bending and some flat out lies.

I'd hate to have to vote for either of them.
Without meaning to be morbid or disrespectful, I don't believe Biden will survive another 4.5 years.
I don't trust Trump to negotiate and develop peace with Russia, Ukraine, Israel and Palestine. I will be genuinely more fearful of international stability if he's voted in.

I don't feel any reasonable person should celebrate either victory.
Poor state of affairs for many of our western 'developed' nations at the moment.

 

[Marlton and Hove Albion]

I just watched the full debate, no real surprises for me.

It's easy for me to feel sorry for Biden, he's too old, he's had so many major health problems and he's fumbling the ball due to real mental decline. If he were 20 years younger, he'd likely steamroll this in my opinion. But he's not, and the rest of the world's leaders can see that he's got one foot in the grave.

Trump's a great talker, spitting out soundbites which millions of voters will enjoy. A large dose of truth bending and some flat out lies.

I'd hate to have to vote for either of them.
Without meaning to be morbid or disrespectful, I don't believe Biden will survive another 4.5 years.
I don't trust Trump to negotiate and develop peace with Russia, Ukraine, Israel and Palestine. I will be genuinely more fearful of international stability if he's voted in.

I don't feel any reasonable person should celebrate either victory.
Poor state of affairs for many of our western 'developed' nations at the moment.

Just look at the entire G7 - Biden is a corpse, Trudeau is increasingly unpopular, as is Macron who is likely out. Rishi is a dead man walking, German and Japanese leaders hover around 30% favorable. Meloni is the only one with her head above water.

Certainly focus on Trump's lies, but Biden told four whoppers and was fact checked post the awful interaction. We all deserve better, not just in the US but across the G7 and beyond. Bereft of honesty and vision.

 

[Triggaaar]

I just watched the full debate, no real surprises for me.

It's easy for me to feel sorry for Biden, he's too old, he's had so many major health problems and he's fumbling the ball due to real mental decline. If he were 20 years younger, he'd likely steamroll this in my opinion. But he's not, and the rest of the world's leaders can see that he's got one foot in the grave.

Trump's a great talker, spitting out soundbites which millions of voters will enjoy. A large dose of truth bending and some flat out lies.

I'd hate to have to vote for either of them.
Without meaning to be morbid or disrespectful, I don't believe Biden will survive another 4.5 years.
I don't trust Trump to negotiate and develop peace with Russia, Ukraine, Israel and Palestine. I will be genuinely more fearful of international stability if he's voted in.

I don't feel any reasonable person should celebrate either victory.

I disagree. It is indeed a terrible state of affairs that this is what the US has to offer their population, but I would absolutely celebrate a Biden victory. Should he be president again - no. Does he still have enough mental capacity to do a great job - no. But will he **** up the world - no.

Trump is a corrupt criminal and will put his own personal desires ahead of all countries, including his own. World peace, democracy and security would suffer.

 

[chickens]

Well, the Democratic party are ruling and they are clearly fit to do so. They've written effective legislation and enacted bills into law which have had meaningful impacts so they clearly are the party who are better at running the country. The Presidency is the figurehead and obviously the president themselves is significant but the big difference between Trump and Biden is competence of administration. Trump's administration was so incompetent and unable to function that (luckily) they really didn't do very much in office, other than appoint 3 Supreme Court judges to tip the scales toward pyschopaths for decades to come, brilliant. Biden's administration has passed legislation which has resulted in job creation, new roads and bridges, etc.

Of course, if you wanted to cut your nose off to spite your face - you could vote for RFK. A man who admitted his brain has been eaten by a worm (no, really). He's a Le Tissier style mental case, but sure, why not. Go for it. And while you're voting for that mess, a couple of hundred million people will be determining the presidency.

While you may be (and in my opinion are) factually correct with regard to the Democrats ability to govern, we’ve all seen America’s capacity for self-harm and it’s possibly only matched by our own. A Biden candidacy now means a Trump presidency. Slow handclap from over here.

Both party machines are capable of passing legislation that has a meaningful impact. Trump has the attention span of a monkey on nitrous oxide, he doesn’t write his own legislation, whatever he tells us in his speeches. The Republican Party has no shortage of grifter lawyers. He’ll get a few tax cuts in and loosen environmental restrictions for his oil burning buddies.

RFK is absolutely fundamentally unsound, but surely you can see that so is the decision making of a Democratic leadership that allowed Joe Biden in his present state to be put forward for four more years.

When you put someone up for president, as the defining figurehead of your party, the platonic ideal and communicator of the values which your party strives to uphold, you should not end up with 2024 Joe Biden leading the charge. I mean no disrespect to somebody who has been a talented politician, and I suspect is a decent man, but he should not have been allowed to get this far. He deserved a dignified retirement. As to what it says about the Republican Party that they’ve selected Trump, I leave that to others. Neither should be a candidate for President of the USA.

I really don’t like these political systems that seems to entrench two parties at the expense of all others. Republican and Democrat parties effectively get so used to passing power between themselves, it almost feels like there’s a tacit level of collusion at some level that they’ll fight each other while ensuring there isn’t room to allow any other party to grow. We have something similar in the UK, but at least we swap out one of the two main parties every hundred years or so.

Both US parties seem incredibly inward looking, focused mainly on their internal battles and interests, rather than serving the country they take it in turns to be elected to run. If I were American I would be searching around desperately for somebody different I could cast my vote for.

Apologies for the essay, but I’m afraid mocking Donald Trump doesn’t cut it any more, we’re staring down the barrel of his second term.

 

[Albion my Albion]

If I was a US citizen who wasn't interested in politics and just watched the highlights reel from that debate, I would 100% vote Trump. And sadly there will be a lot of people like that.

The Dems need to change Biden for somebody else immediately, or they are going to lose this election.

Apparently of the people who have voiced who they want to vote for at this time there wasn't much change in opinion because of last night's debate. For those who say they are undecided they are utterly besides themselves because they hate both choices and can't support either candidate and this will most likely hurt Biden or another Democrat if Biden decides to quit the race.

 

[StonehamPark]

I disagree. It is indeed a terrible state of affairs that this is what the US has to offer their population, but I would absolutely celebrate a Biden victory. Should he be president again - no. Does he still have enough mental capacity to do a great job - no. But will he **** up the world - no.

Trump is a corrupt criminal and will put his own personal desires ahead of all countries, including his own. World peace, democracy and security would suffer.

That's a very fair and reasonable post, and you touch on my own biggest worries; International stability (or lack thereof), and Trump making decisions based on personal ego.

Just look at the entire G7 - Biden is a corpse, Trudeau is increasingly unpopular, as is Macron who is likely out. Rishi is a dead man walking, German and Japanese leaders hover around 30% favorable. Meloni is the only one with her head above water.

Certainly focus on Trump's lies, but Biden told four whoppers and was fact checked post the awful interaction. We all deserve better, not just in the US but across the G7 and beyond. Bereft of honesty and vision.

I didn't catch all, but I am now just starting to watch some analysis and fact checking.
And yes, totally agree with your stance on our current G7 leadership. I'm personally not looking forward to the upcoming Canadian election.

 

[US Seagull]

I disagree. It is indeed a terrible state of affairs that this is what the US has to offer their population, but I would absolutely celebrate a Biden victory. Should he be president again - no. Does he still have enough mental capacity to do a great job - no. But will he **** up the world - no.

Trump is a corrupt criminal and will put his own personal desires ahead of all countries, including his own. World peace, democracy and security would suffer.

100% this. Biden may or may not be up to the job (and yesterday's performance pushed the needle alarming towards the not), but he will surround himself with competent and serious people who will look to advance a progressive agenda while mostly maintaining the status quo.

Trump will surround himself with crooks, grifters and yes men that will milk the country, and the world, for everything they can, destroy long established institutions and destroy democracy. If Trump wins, this might be the last election America has for a while.

The choice could hardly be more stark.

I was 100% in favor of voting for Biden. That resolve has been shaken by last night's shitshow. But I am still 100% committed to voting against Trump and his fawning cult of GOP lackeys that have enabled him due to their cowardice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Biden live on R5 just now. Sounded much better. Amazing what a 7% solution of cocaine taken intravenously can do for a man. Ask Sherlock Holmes

(Sounded good, by the way. What a palaver.)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

100% this. Biden may or may not be up to the job (and yesterday's performance pushed the needle alarming towards the not), but he will surround himself with competent and serious people who will look to advance a progressive agenda while mostly maintaining the status quo.

Trump will surround himself with crooks, grifters and yes men that will milk the country, and the world, for everything they can, destroy long established institutions and destroy democracy. If Trump wins, this might be the last election America has for a while.

The choice could hardly be more stark.

I was 100% in favor of voting for Biden. That resolve has been shaken by last night's shitshow. But I am still 100% committed to voting against Trump and his fawning cult of GOP lackeys that have enabled him due to their cowardice.

Top work. Were I illegible to vote I'd write the same words, albeit less clearly I'd imagine.

 

[Comrade Sam]

350 million people and the best they can offer is Biden and Trump? It actually makes Sunak and Starmer look like a clash of the titans

 

[Marlton and Hove Albion]

I disagree. It is indeed a terrible state of affairs that this is what the US has to offer their population, but I would absolutely celebrate a Biden victory. Should he be president again - no. Does he still have enough mental capacity to do a great job - no. But will he **** up the world - no.

Trump is a corrupt criminal and will put his own personal desires ahead of all countries, including his own. World peace, democracy and security would suffer.

The only trouble with you argument is under Obama we experienced war (ISIS, Crimea, Syria), under Biden we are experiencing war (Ukraine/Palestine), under Trump we had "relative" peace and he was brokering Middle East Peace accords. He patted that fat little despot Kim on the head and avoided Korean peninsula conflict. He encouraged naughty NATO members to have stronger defence and he kept Iran quiet. I don't agree with your assertion based on the facts. NOW - it could all go pear shaped in a hurry, but generally weak leaders create wars (Chamberlain). I think these nutters see Trump as one of their own and aren't in a hurry to test him.

 

[StonehamPark]

The only trouble with you argument is under Obama we experienced war (ISIS, Crimea, Syria), under Biden we are experiencing war (Ukraine/Palestine), under Trump we had "relative" peace and he was brokering Middle East Peace accords. He patted that fat little despot Kim on the head and avoided Korean peninsula conflict. He encouraged naughty NATO members to have stronger defence and he kept Iran quiet. I don't agree with your assertion based on the facts. NOW - it could all go pear shaped in a hurry, but generally weak leaders create wars (Chamberlain). I think these nutters see Trump as one of their own and aren't in a hurry to test him.

That's a good and fair argument too.

Since Biden came to power.

Russia - Ukraine
Israel - Palestine
North Korea - ROK

(Yes, I know these are all long-time wars that have been on/off for centuries, I am explicitly talking about the most recent major events from each scenario).

All very worrying and troublesome international crises, whereas it was pretty damn calm whilst Trump was in the White House.
I don't believe it was all all coincidence or bad luck.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

There were no notes, no autocue last night and Biden fluffed it. It's sad but he clearly isn't going to appeal to a floating voter and isn't the man for this fight. I think It really is a simple as bin him or lose and I don't think the Democrats are that ruthless.

As the Song goes "That's why your going down"

 

[zefarelly]

Biden live on R5 just now. Sounded much better. Amazing what a 7% solution of cocaine taken intravenously can do for a man. Ask Sherlock Holmes

(Sounded good, by the way. What a palaver.)

Ooh, Ive got a gig in a bit, can you get that at Boots?

 

[sparkie]

Just look at the entire G7 - Biden is a corpse, Trudeau is increasingly unpopular, as is Macron who is likely out. Rishi is a dead man walking, German and Japanese leaders hover around 30% favorable. Meloni is the only one with her head above water.

Certainly focus on Trump's lies, but Biden told four whoppers and was fact checked post the awful interaction. We all deserve better, not just in the US but across the G7 and beyond. Bereft of honesty and vision.

Macron isn't up for election and is "in" until 2027 ( when he cannot serve a 3rd consecutive term, but could come back in 2032 ).

 

[Triggaaar]

The only trouble with you argument is under Obama we experienced war (ISIS, Crimea, Syria), under Biden we are experiencing war (Ukraine/Palestine), under Trump we had "relative" peace and he was brokering Middle East Peace accords. He patted that fat little despot Kim on the head and avoided Korean peninsula conflict. He encouraged naughty NATO members to have stronger defence and he kept Iran quiet. I don't agree with your assertion based on the facts.

Putin always planned to invade Ukraine again. That he didn't do it during Trump's short tenure is coincidence and nothing to do with Trump's leadership. We can pick many leaders who have seen peace in their time, whilst they are not the reason for that peace.

Korean conflict? There hasn't been a Korean conflict for 70 years. Giving any recent leader credit for that is farcical.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation whose goal is the removal of Israel. They would attack any time they could, regardless on who's president of the US at the time.

I agree with you about Trump encouraging NATO members to spend more.

NOW - it could all go pear shaped in a hurry, but generally weak leaders create wars (Chamberlain). I think these nutters see Trump as one of their own and aren't in a hurry to test him.

I imagine they see Trump as a useful idiot. He wouldn't have sent troops into Ukraine. His plan is to get Ukraine to give up land, and they're not going to be ok with that. That is the weakness of Chamberlin you refer to - appease a dictator. And if he stops arms to Ukraine, then Europe's security is more at risk.